Well, saying he's obviously better better in the 4-3 over the 3-4 is purely speculative. We don't know if he can perform well if 1) he has a decent DLine in front of him, and 2) he is fully healthy, which he hasn't been this year. Sure, Harris has better 3-4 skills, and that's obvious. However, writing off Vilma now is silly. Who knows if we can compete for a ring within the next 3 years? It's a crapshoot. It more depends on Tannenbaum's willingness to part with cash, and Mangini's ability to draft to his blueprint. We won't know if this team is capable of the Super Bowl in 2009-2010 until 12 months from now. Maybe 18. Maybe we put him on IR because with a lengthy recovery time, it made more sense for him to miss the rest of a lost season, rather than risk camp time? Isn't this basically what was said publicly by Vilma and Mangini? As for why he would stay here, why did Lewis and Jones stay for so long? Players buy into a system, more in football than any other sport. He may just want to stay because he believes. If he doesn't, then fine, get rid of him. If he has bought in though, it's hard to throw away that talent without getting something better than an unproven QB who dropped terribly low in the draft in return.
Quinn = A position that we MIGHT need, especially if Clemens is as bad as he' been playing, but I think a lot of his struggles are on the o-line. Vilma = Proven MLB in the 4-3, mediocre at best ILB in the 3-4 I don't want Quinn either, but our FO might. I doubt this will happen, but we could be in the market for a QB.
Quinn only waited that long because: 1. The Raiders FO is stupid. 2. The Browns FO is smart. 3. The Dolphins FO is brain dead. No other teams were really shopping for QB's this year.
God help us if that happens. Quinn is a marginal NFL prospect behind a good offensive line and nothing at all behind the Jet's line.
if he wants to stay here, i would be happy. If he wants to leave our FO has to sort this out and work out a deal before draft day. if i would have to choose from those two, its a nobrainer, that i would sign him to a long term deal. The one thing that we can?t let happen is keep him around for another year, and see him walk out the door next year and we get nothing in return. Do you think we would fanchise him next year?
Wow, I'd trade Vilma for Quinn in a second. Vilma just doesn't fit the 3-4, and getting a young talent like Quinn for him would be beautiful. And yes, I do think Quinn is a better QB than he's been given credit for. The "he doesn't win big games" knock on a QB is always lame as hell to me.
I thought I had clicked on the Bullshit forum. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6M9fIincgM There's how well Quinn does against teams with less than NFL speed, and Notre Dame's O-Line is always at least above average for a college team, unlike our O-Line, which is subpar for an NFL team. They drafted Quinn at 22, and if the Browns want a 2nd rounder for him, then they're stupid to think they are getting a stud linebacker. We are picking 36th, so that would be down 14 spots from last year and the best 4-3 LB we've had in ages. Quinn sucks, Vilma doesn't. Cutler (and this is saying somethin), among others, will have way better NFL careers. If we do anything dumb like this, when we could easily have one of the best players in the draft on the O-Line or D-Line at 36ish, I'll be pissed.
the best 4-3 LB we've had in ages.>>> Good thing we play in a 3-4 where he's disappeared completely then, right?
First of all let me make this perfectly clear... ...I have NEVER in my life played Madden - don't know how to play it - don't know what it works on? The idea came from two fans - one a Jet fan (me) and one a Browns fan (my sales rep) over dinner. I have given Clemens plenty of the benefit of the doubt. Right now I doubt he'll be an above average NFL Quarterback...not that he might not be - but so far his INT to TD ratio is awful - and yes he's basically a rookie, but he's shown me toughness but not much else. OK a pretty good arm. Quinn - I never said he was the second coming of Broadway Joe, but you must admit he has the charisma and personality to survive and maybe thrive in NYC. Some "experts" had him in the top 5 in the draft - before he fell and fell and fell...and that happens sometimes in a draft. Look at Big Ben... Quinn would have been top 5 had he come out a year early. He hasn't shown anything - good or bad - for Cleveland - due in large part to his holdout, and then the emergence or Anderson as the MAN in Cleveland. Why would Cleveland dump him - for less then they paid for him? As my rep said he's a distraction now on the bench behind Anderson - and if the Browns hope to compete in 2008 to get to the next level he'd rather have a veteran backup and Vilma or our #2 than Quinn - simple as that. OK - Vilma - has been on the downslide for 2 seasons - always undersized, never protected by a big NT. At his age, stage, coming off injury and with a contract coming up - the best thing for him and the Jets is to package him off to a team that is closer - like Cleveland. Value for Value - this makes sense - even if it never happens - makes sense for both teams. The Jets can still address the OLine and NT in the draft (still have one of the top #1 picks) and Free Agency. Finally, IMO there are NO quarterbacks coming out in the draft this year I like as much as Quinn.
"Quinn sucks, Vilma doesn't" was the very next line. Insight like this, plus the implication that you imply that Cutler sucks kind of made me flush your post down the toilet.
What was your genius idea in this thread? That you've always liked Quinn? Did you go watch the video? I said behind a poor O-Line he sucks, and he'll have one here, especially if we go around throwing draft picks for unproven guys. It'd be like bringing in Clemens the 2nd. It's not like Quinn can teach Clemens anything. The best thing would be the competition and then for the season we would have--wow look, 2 QB's with no experience, who would get "happy feet" and have no "pocket awareness." And I made a valid point about the draft, and how we'd be giving up a former first round LB who may still be very good and a 2nd for a guy that was taken only 10 spots out of the 2nd.
Or that a young QB with excellent pedigree is better than the guy whose struggled the entire time he's been in our new defense? I'd say that offers a bit more than "Quinn sucks, Vilma doesn't." What about Vilma has been so great on this current team? 1. EVERY QB is likely to suck behind a poor O-line. Whats the point? 2. Good thing Vilma's not a draft pick then, right? 3. Or we could fix the O-line, give them some weapons on offense, and stop just implying that everything is the QBs fault. At some point ALL QBs have no experience. Vilma may still be very good, but more than likely it's with a 4-3 team...which the Browns aren't anyway...
If we need another QB because we are not happy with Clemens, draft one thats better than Quinn , Matt Ryan??? Lets say we do want to trade Vilma , Ok we don't want Quinn , but we do need a bunch of other positions , so we do a 3 way trade the same way we did with Atlanta on the Abraham trade , or something like it. Personally we could probably do a deal with Baltimore and get Suggs in a straight deal
Okay, Cutler's the 2nd coming. I thought the OP said Vilma & 2nd for Quinn. Vilma and a late wouldn't be so bad, but I don't feel like we need some inexperienced guy to come in and play QB anyway. If we need QB help its from a veteran, and I don't really give a flying rats ass if someone has a NY personality. Who the hell cares if he even talks to the media as long as he produces?
