So what I just heard was that the whole business of making a trade with San Fran for Matsui was to get a young arm from them to trade to Minny to get Santana. Now I'm still in favor of not getting him now, and seeing what happens with FA with him. But if we can get him without giving up any of our arms, then I'd be willing to listen. It's still in our/Boston's best interests for us both to walk away from the table altogether though. He can then enter the bidding war between us next winter, and neither of us has to sacrifice our futures.
Pretty funny how things have changed. Boston originally got into the Santana thing to force the Yankees to pay more then they would have wanted. Now the Yankees refuse to say they are out of it, knowing they have the best offer on the table, just to force Boston to make a deal they want no part of.
Unless Minny does a 180, I think he stays with the Twins or goes to the Mets. I'm not sure the Yanks or Sox want him that much.
Except actual value, something is always better than nothing. I am not saying the Mets have a chance because I don't see it, but getting something for him is much better than getting draft pick compensation.
"Meanwhile, the Twins' talks with the Yankees remained dormant. According to a person close to the talks, Yankees lefthander Kei Igawa was one of several players the sides discussed last week, along with righthander Phil Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera. Igawa has four years and $16 million remaining on his contract, and though he struggled last year, some scouts say they think he could benefit from a change of scenery." That sounds like it should be a nobrainer. http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/12337791.html
If the deal still involves Hughes, I'm sick of hearing it. I don't want any deal that involves him, Joba, or really, even Kennedy, period. Now if they're willing to take Kei Igawa, I'll put a bow on his head, and hand-deliver him myself. Now why don't the Yankees just give it up and either look elsewhere, or just stick with what they've got? I'm tired of this Santana talk.
Alio youre dismissing Santana talk becaue youre tired of hearing it, thats finee. but be careful in underestimating santana so quick....we wont win shit in the playoffs as we stand right now...add santana and we're world series favorites....it is that significant a change....I understand in the long run you dont want to give up hughes.......but lets not get all cavalier about not needing Johan
I didn't say we couldn't use him. I'm just tired of hearing about it. Either it should get done, or they should look elsewhere at options like Bedard or Haren. Regardless, Santana does not make us an instant World Series favorite. Anyone who thinks Boston isn't the favorite going into 2008 is crazy, even if we have a rotation of Santana, Pettitte, Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain. If all 5 pitch to the best of their ability, and the rest of the team stays healthy, sure, I'd give us a legit shot. However, if we get Santana, the way the deal appears it would go down right now, here's our Opening Day lineup: Damon CF Jeter SS Abreu RF ARod 3B Giambi 1B Posada C Cano 2B ??? LF (since Matsui would be gone) ??? DH (Shelly Duncan?) That's not exactly the offensive powerhouse we came into 2007 with. Not to mention the significant decline in total defensive ability. All the pitching in the world isn't going to get us past Boston if we can't hit.
lets for arguments sake say the yankees put two guys who hit 270 with 60 rbi's in left and DH just to fill out your lineup....thats plenty, plenty offense to get to the playoffs with what our rotation would be....plenty! then you have santana pitching 2 outta 5 in the short series with wang and pettitte-nevermind Joba......Ill take my chances
Why? Because they can't just allow Santana to go to the Red Sox, that's why? Can't you see that? The financial cost alone would be huge. We don't sell 4 million tickets a year because we are NOT in the hunt (although we will the next two years anyway). There would be a hit on YES no matter what. We just can't allow it to happen. Anywhere else is fine but not Boston.
I do the same thing when talk turns to Jacoby Ellsbury. I want to see that kid grow old in a Red Sox uniform, and I don't care what comes back in return. In other news, for whatever it's worth, I heard Schilling on the radio this morning. He spoke with certainty about the Red Sox acquiring Santana. When asked whether his confidence was the result of a "gut feeling" or inside information, his response was, "A little of both."
Umm, does this wonderful lineup hit in October? Because you aren't beating the Sox if your bats go cold. I don't care if every one of your starters pitches a 9 inning no-hitter. You will lose in 10th if you don't score. There's your problem. You've subscribed to this "Yankees vs. Boston is the only race that matters" mentality. It's 1) unrealistic, and 2) doesn't work. Boston figured that out years ago, and stopped playing that game. Why can't we? Oh, yeah, because we have an ownership that conducts business based on fan reaction to media-spun stories. Because you are smart enough to see that the future matters. Not to mention, your team has been smart enough to avoid the "Beat the Yankees in the market at all costs" game. It's enough to build your team properly, and make the attempt to actually compete with the best team, not singular players. I wouldn't be surprised if Boston gets him. What will they have to give up though?
Pitching still wins Alio. I really dont even see how youre arguing this....youre the one who has defended A-rod forever saying hes gonna hit in the playoffs, hes gonna hit in the playoffs........Matsui didnt hit at all in the playoffs so what would we be losing??? you argue that youre sick of the way the yanks have been doing things, but you still feel the need to have a 325 hitter at every position. makes no sense. let me say again, pitching wins....and your proposed lineup minus the two spots IS enough offense......damon, jeter , abreu, A-rod, posada, cano and giambi plus 2 other guys isnt enough offense? Nonsense......wang starting two of 4 games against cleveland and sucking balls- now thats a problem..Santana eliminates that problem
I'm not against improving pitching. Not at all. I don't see it as improvement if we sacrifice Hughes and Kennedy for Santana though. It might work for a year or two, if we're lucky, but then what? Yes, I firmly believe ARod will break out in the playoffs, but one guy doesn't win a title. As we've seen every year, the entire lineup goes quiet at once. When one domino falls, all of them come tumbling down. I have no problem trading Matsui, if the deal results in getting Santana without giving up Hughes or Kennedy. I've said that a couple times already. I'm not attached to Matsui. The only reason I still want him is because he's a better option at DH than Giambi. I never said I was sick of the way the Yanks have been doing things. That's Don. I didn't say we need a .325 hitter at every position. As a matter of fact, I've always been pretty clear that I think about a player's defensive ability before I consider his hitting skills. There's a bottom of the lineup for a reason. As for Giambi, do you rely on him in the playoffs? I don't. And there's no way I want to ever see him play another game at first for the Yankees.
Giambi is going to dh. we need to get a first basemen. but either way, trading matsui for young pitchin gis a good idea. you were balking at trading matsui because you think it would weaken our lineup too much. I say, we have to reconfigure our lineup andw e would have plenty of hitting...if the whole lineup goes south in the playoffs again then we're fucked. but lets not forget that matsui was one of the biggest to blame last playoffs
