I posted part of the below in another thread, but thought it important enough that it deserved its own thread. Forget about Tom Brady and Belichicken as the most obvious differences for a moment, and look at how these two teams have been built in the trenches: These are the starters on the offensive and defensive line for the Patriots: OLINE - Nick Kaczur was drafted by the New England Patriots in the third round (100th overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft. Matt Light was drafted by the New England Patriots in the second round (48th overall) of the 2001 NFL Draft. Dan Koppen was drafted by the New England Patriots in the fifth round (164th overall) of the 2003 NFL Draft. Logan Mankins was drafted by the New England Patriots in the first round (32nd overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft. Stephen Neal was originally signed by the Patriots as an undrafted free agent (7/23/01) Ryan O'Callaghan was drafted by the New England Patriots in the fifth round (136th overall) of the 2006 NFL Draft Russ Hochstein was obtained by the Patriots as an UFA when they signed him to the practice squad on Oct. 21, 2002. Wesley Britt was signed to the Patriots active roster on January 30, 2006 ... Originally drafted by the San Diego Chargers in the fifth round (164th overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft ... Released by the Chargers (9/4/05) ... Signed to the Patriots practice squad (9/5/05). DLINE - Richard Seymour was drafted by the Patriots in the first round (sixth overall) of the 2001 NFL Draft. Vince Wilfork was drafted by the New England Patriots in the first round (21st overall) of the 2004 NFL Draft. Jarvis Green was drafted by the New England Patriots in the fourth round (126th overall) of the 2002 NFL Draft. Mike Wright was signed as an undrafted free agent by the New England Patriots on April 29, 2005. LeKevin Smith was drafted by the New England Patriots in the sixth round (206th overall) of the 2006 NFL. Ty Warren was drafted by the New England Patriots in the first round (13th overall) in the 2003 NFL Draft. SINCE 2001, the Patriots have used 11 Draft picks and 4 UFA signings to build their current offensive and defensive line as follows: FOUR 1st RD Draft Picks ONE 2nd Rd Draft Pick ONE 3rd Rd Draft Pick ONE 4th Rd Draft Pick TWO 5th Rd Draft Picks ONE 6th Rd Draft Pick FOUR UFA Signings They have imported a grand total of ZERO Offensive and Defensive Lineman in Free Agency (in this instance I mean they haven't spent any big FA $$$ to sign a lineman) to build those two lines. Since the 2001 Draft through the 2007 Draft, the Patriots have had a total of 60 draft picks, of which they have expended a total of 19 draft picks on offensive and defensive lineman. Of those 19, 11 are still on the team (57% success rate). THEY HAVE USED 33% OF THEIR DRAFT PICKS ON THE OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE LINEMAN SINCE 2001. Why has Belichicken done this and why aren't other teams???? Offensive and defensive lineman are "force multipliers" in the NFL. What do I mean by this? A great offensive line can create holes that make an average running back look great. A great offensive line can protect an average QB and give him time to complete a pass. A great offensive line can, by protecting a QB, given WRs enough time to get open (I don't care how good the coverage is - it always breaks down without pressure). A great defensive line can stuff the run and make average LBs look great. A great defensive line can create pressure on QBs that allow average DBs to capitalize on QB mistakes. All other positions can be imported if necessary. RBs are a dime a dozen in the NFL. WRs generally take 3 years to develop, why draft when you can get one in free agency? The same goes for CBs and LBs. The only exception is the franchise QB. They very rarely are available on the open market so it is necessary to draft and develop one. We can bitch all we want about how the Patriots lucked into Brady...and that they did...but you cannot deny that they have committed the FO and Scouting Department to finding, drafting and developing talent in the trenches. That is why they can get away with importing WRs, RBs, LBs, etc. Those are interchangeable parts on the machine and mean nothing without the offensive and defensive line "engine" and QB driver. Oh and by the way, I won't delve into the specifics, but the Jets have actually devoted a higher % of their DPs to the offensive and defensive line than the Patriots have since 2001. The Jets have had a total of 50 DPs since 2001 and used 17 on offensive and defensive lineman (about 35%). What is the biggest difference between the Jets and Patriots then??? Of those 17 draft picks, only 7 are still on the Jets (41% success rate). More importantly, of the 7 only 4 are starters - Mangold and Ferguson on the offensive line and Robertson on the defensive line. Thomas was moved to OLB and the remaining 3 are back-ups. As for the Patriots, 7 of 8 starters on the offensive and defensive line are Patriot draft picks. Pretty interesting if you ask me...
The patriots have also had an additional 10 picks in the same amount of time. I would like to see the numbers in a couple of years because we cannot blame the current regime for the last regimes mistakes. The draft is a crapshoot, just look at ryan leaf, or rick mirer. Scouting can be very helpfull but is not bulletproof. this is a different league than NCAA. Lineman are as fast as running backs in the NFL
No, the Jets suck at draft prioritization and free agent retention. They have sucked at this ever since 2001 when they spent three picks to trade up three slots and pick a smurf wide receiver in the first round in Terry Bradway's signature draft. The team they traded with? The Pittsburgh Steelers, who happily traded down three slots and took a NT on the 19. Free loot is free loot. The Jets third round pick that year was a big tackle named Kareem McKenzie. Four years later he walked across town in free agency as the Jets deemed him not worthy of a large contract. The Jet's right tackles since then have been Adrian Jones and Anthony Clement.
Well, despite how good Revis and Harris have been, we would have had significantly more picks had we not traded up for these two.... Add onto that the fact that the current regime traded a pick for Kevan Barlow, and you understand what I'm getting at... Good teams stockpile picks and build through the draft, instead of trading picks for a couple of studs
I think it's pretty clear that having fewer picks higher in the draft was better then having more picks overall. The only offensive lineman I wanted after the first two rounds was Marshal Yanda. We need to draft lineman every year to keep creating depth and not having to rely on free agency. Defensive lineman are more difficult to get then offensive lineman. I really thought that our front office from day one would only worry about the lines until they were in good shape. Like the original poster said if you have good lines on both sides of the ball you can make any nfl skill player look very good. As much as Mcfadden is very talented running back is one of the easiest positions to fill in the league and Thomas Jones would very solid behind a good line.
Jets suck at keepin their players. They let Randy Thomas and McKenzie get away. and Mawae walking still wasn't worth it. Thats the Line CHAD had when he started.
Retention has been the biggest problem, Randy Thomas, MacKenzie, Becht, Ferguson and Abe all got to their walk years without a serious offer or no offer at all. Some how if we had an OL with DBrick, Thomas, Mangold, Moore and Mackenzie and a DL with Ferguson, Robertson and Ellis and had Thomas and Abe on the outside with Hobson and Harris on the inside I think we might have a couple of more wins. Becht while he couldn't catch was a devestating blocker you put him on the line in a 2 TE set with Baker and we blow Cleveland D line into the back of the endzone on first and goal.
No but we can blame them for their own mistakes...ie.drafting a CB when they can't stop the run and spending 20 million on a RB when they can't open a hole. Spending pretty much their entire draft on the two of them.
First off Kazcur and Neal Stink, they are huge weaknesses on that line. In regards to letting players go, what's abe done lately? Yeah, it was a big mistake letting Ferguson, Thomas, and Mckenzie go that was Bradway's mistake. I know in hindsight getting Steinbach would have been great, but hey Faneca is on the market and even though he has had a down year he is still a five time all-pro. If we sign him and Flozell Adams at least the O-line is set for two years. Then the FO can concentrate on the D-line in the draft: Chris Long and Frank Okam are the guys we need. There you have it the lines are rebuilt. I think this is the only way that this team can make the O-line and D-line a force next year. I've heard a lot of talk about Stacey Andrews and Justin Smiley and I think its ironic that people say we need to spend on big guys, but this is what they want to spend on. I'm telling you that both of these guys probably won't be special. And by the way what's Richard Seymour done lately?
hi, from japan. I like patriots football but jets is very popular too. I wish jets to win but t.v in japan says that it is impossible. I think point of win is for jets to pass as if Tom Brady. thank you
I'll bet if you look, however, you'll see that the Jets drafted OL late in the draft (other than Brick and Mangold). Most of the Jets draft picks have been DL. And the Jets have been unwilling to spend the money to keep some OL they have drafted. It is clear that the OL has not been a priority for the Jets and it is the most important area of a football team.
Thank you Royal. You speak Japanese! But it is very strange. Your team is Jets but it is my team too because I am fan. I am happy to meet people here too. First start because I want to practice english but I like american football. よろしく！
The reason the offensive line sucks is we really haven't invested in it consistently. Since 2000 we have drafted the following offensive lineman: 2000 Draft No lineman 2001 Draft Kareem Mckenzie Situpe Peko 2002 Draft Jonathon Goodwin 2003 Draft Dave Yovanovits 2004 Draft Adrian Jones Marco Cavka 2005 Draft No offensive lineman 2006 Draft Brick Mangold 2007 Draft Bender In 8 drafts they took 9 offensive lineman. This wouldn't be that bad if they had kept Mckenzie. A line of Brick, LG, Mangold, Moore and Mckenzie would be solid. The bottom line is in the course of 8 drafts they couldn't find one offensive lineman in the mid rounds to contribute. It's one of the only positions that consistently has good players after the first and second round. Just proves that Bradway had a hard on for defensive lineman and secondary players.
