It's been quite clear that we are all unhappy with the lack of talent with this team, but many people are very unhappy with the fact that the FO didn't sign anyone significant in free agency. With that being said who should the FO have gone out and gotten looking back or shouldn't have gotten? (By the way please don't state going for Randy Moss since that is true hindsight in every sense of the word, and that's stating the obvious).
Eric Steinbach? Derrick Dockery? Leonard Davis? You know, the young to mid-career offensive linemen who were on the market last season. The teams that signed them are all over-achieving to some extent while the Jets wallow in the pits of NFL hell.
^Davis may be the best signing next to Moss. And, the front office in Dallas showed some smarts in moving him from tackle to guard. They are in love with him in big D right now
If you take chances with mid-career free agent talent you have the opportunity to hit a homerun like Dallas did with Davis, like the Steelers did with Farrior, like the Patriots did with Welker, like the Saints did with Brees, etc. If you just sit on your hands and say "well, I guess we'll play Moore and Clarke" you have a very good chance of looking like fools 6 months down the road.
Those guys were all paid a kings ransom. D'Brick needs a good LG though. It doesn't hurt Joe Thomas to have Steinbach next to me...Walter Jones was at his best with SH was in Seattle...D'Brick has looked great all year and this is with Adrian friggin Clarke next to him.
They were paid the going rate for a good guard in free agency. It's just what it is. You can pay through the nose in free agency or you can draft a good prospect or you can go 2-9. D'Brick's taken a step backwards this season. Not a critical step by any means, but he was better last year and he needs to be better next season.
I've watched him get spun like a top and take more penalties and block less effectively in the running game. He really has not played as well as he did as a rookie. He has avoided the couple of terrible games he had last season (Schobel primarily) but he has had a bunch of subpar efforts. I'm hoping that when he has a real guard next to him he'll be able to continue on the path it looked like he was headed on going into this season.
But you have at least an equal chance of crippling your team. I cannot say I am a fan at all of big ticket FA signings in the NFL.
If we signed any of those guys to the contracts they signed for you and most of the board would have gone nuts about how we overpaid for mediocrity. This was not a great year for FA, the guy everyone wanted(Adalius Thomas) has done very little this year and not worth half of what NE paid for him. Who else was there that we didn't get?
Adalius Thomas and Moss (I know you said don't mention him but he was a steal). Everybody we should have looked at went to NE and look where they are now. Granted they had a lot more to begin with but they would never be this good without these guys. Hell, they were on the verge of heading downhill after last year. They go out and get Thomas, Moss, Stallworth and Welker and now they talk about them as the greatest team of all time. We go out and get car salesmem to play DE and a fullback who we just cut. Then we trade a high second round pick for a 20 million dollar runner who couldn't possibly be successful running behind last year's line but just to make sure we trade away the only run blocker we had. Are you starting to see the light here?
The difference maker has been Moss, if NE only got Moss they'd be just as good. Anyone can put up Welker's #s w/ the way D's have to worry about Moss(and alot of his #s have come in garbage time when the Pats have been running up the score). Thomas has done basically nothing all year and Stallworth has been decent. Moss was NOT a FA and I was afraid he'd return to form if NE got him and unfortunately that happened but theres no way I'd overpay for Welker and Thomas the way NE did.
Simpy put , the Pats O just exploit whatever opposing Ds are covering the most. If Moss is getting double teamed , then yes welker has room and vice-versa. Brady is excellent at finding that weakness , should find plenty on 12/16/07. Brady has always been excellent with TEs , now hes has the same size to throw to in a WR.
AGREED.... And we're talking about maybe Two guys here - Who's to say they didn't go after them and the players wanted to go where they want.... I wanted to go Balls to the wall for linemen in the draft but, as it turns out IN TH ELONG RUN.. Harris and Revis might turn out better and this could be the draft abd FA market to shore up the OL...... Bottomline is that this year wasn't going to be a Championship contending year anyway so, they seem to have hit homeruns on that draft..... Time to make the NEXT right moves and get these lines in shape then anything can happen.
I just cannot believe that the Patriots signed that many good receivers while the Jets stood pat with what they had. Cotchery and Coles are good but there is no depth behind them. We all thought J-Mac was going to get cut loose and he should have been.
Players that were generally thought to be poor fits on the Jets at the end of the first year in Mangini's system: Jonathan Vilma Dewayne Robertson Kevin Barlow David Barrett Justin McCareins Anthony Clements B.J. Askew Derrick Blaylock Cedric Houston Adrian Jones Patrick Ramsey Anthony Schlegel Kimo Von Ohlhoffen There were a few others who were cut during the season (Derrick Strait) or fit the system but were physically not fit enough to play in it (Rashad Moore) but basically that's the dirty dozen above, the players who didn't add enough to justify their role on the team. In the offseason all the easy decisions were made, with average to poor talent like Kevin Barlow, Anthony Clements, B.J. Askew, Derrick Blaylock, Patrick Ramsey and Anthony Schlegel allowed to depart via free agency or post-season cuts. A few other decisions were based on age, like KVO and Dwight Smith or lack of impactful talent like Houston. The hard decisions just never got made. Vilma and D-Rob really needed to go somewhere else and bring this last place team some talent. Barrett and McCareins also could have brought much needed late picks to flesh out the future and provide bodies to look at for the next few camps as the Jets rebuilt. The final bankruptcy of the offseason was resigning Anthony Clements in a desperation move after the Jets had squandered the draft by trading up twice to get people they thought they had to have. Good teams grow on trees. You pick the low-hanging talent on day one and solidify the roster and then you get up on your ladder and you go looking for the people who might make a difference on day two. It's hard work, but it's necessary to the survival of any good team. You need to find a guy now and then in the 6th or 7th round who can be a starter in this league. You need to have your 4th and 5th round picks and hopefully a few extras to get the Kerry Rhodes, Terrence McGees and Asante Samuels that are out there in every draft. When you are reduced to scrabbling for proven mediocrities like Anthony Clements and signing weak players like Brandon Moore to long-term contracts it's because you did not do the hard work of finding the talent that is out there in every NFL draft. I have heard the Jets repeatedly claim that a draft was light on talent and that justified trading several picks to move up in the first round and take one good prospect. That is a loser mentality and one that has cost us dearly. The 2003 draft was supposed to be a very weak draft, especially in the first two rounds, so the Jets traded up for D-Rob and wound up exercising 7 picks in the draft, giving up the Laveranues Coles compensation pick plus a 4th round pick along with their own 13 in the process. The Patriots made 10 picks in that "weak" draft including three in the first two rounds. They found a pro bowler in the 4th round (Assante Samuel) and one in waiting in the 5th round (Dan Koppen.) They moved up ONE slot at the cost of a 7th round pick and got Ty Warren in the first. The Colts made 9 picks in that draft and got Dallas Clark, Mike Doss and Cato June out of it. Both of those excellent organizations took their best shots at finding good players and avoided the weakness of trading up to "guarantee" the picks. The people running the Jets right now, and the people who have run them for the last half decade are basically fully deserving of the 2-9 they have fostered. They have no basic understanding of what it takes to win in the NFL and as a result we're just losing badly and will continue to do so until they either wise up or clear out. Personally I'd rather they clear out. 2-9 really stings.
thank you for the logic.....you have hit our past on the head. i cant wait to see how the sunshiners respond to this one, it should be funny.
The problem is that when the free agency period started, it still looked like Kendall was going to be playing here. It wasn't until much later in the offseason that it became apparent that he wouldn't. Had Kendall been released earlier, I'm sure the Jets would've made more of a push to bring in an interior lineman. I wanted them to anyways because Moore is average at best, but things would've been much different if not for the Kendall situation.
Personally I would disagree on Robertson and Vilma. I think Robertson has played fairly well, decent enough that I don't mind having him around, and I don't know what kind of trade value he'd really have anyways. What'd be ideal is to have a traditional big-bodied nose on the roster so you could move Robertson around; play him some at the nose, some at 3-4 end, maybe use some more 4-3 sets. I think Robertson has basically become the fall guy for a group that lacks talent and depth all around, but I personally think he's a talented enough player that I'd rather keep him around. Vilma obviously has trade value, but if Mangini had given up on a player as talented as Vilma after only one season, he'd look like a fool. A guy as talented as Vilma shouldn't need a system tailored to fit his strengths, good coaches should be able to find ways to utilize his strengths. So far Mangini and Sutton haven't done that with Vilma, and to me, thats the biggest black mark on their record. It's nice that they want to build a traditional 3-4, but to some extent you've got to be flexible and find ways to use the talent that you have. Neither player has been outstanding since Mangini's arrival, but I don't think a fire sale is the answer. I think the answer is to get the supporting players that you need to have in order to use them properly. As for Barrett and McCareins, the coaches seemed to like Barrett a lot in the offseason (although I feel like it's been a while now since I've seen him on the field)., you can never have too many corners on the roster. McCareins Im sure would have been traded if anybody had made an offer, I think the Jets made it fairly clear that he was available. As for the draft, I agree that good teams have to find late round talent, but personally, I think Revis and Harris have performed well enough to justify the tradeups. The Jets have had a gigantic hole at cornerback since Aaron Glenn left, I for one am thrilled that we finally have a legit player out there, and Harris looks like the real deal too. Late round talent is important, but not as important as a top shelf cornerback. If the Jets make a regular habit of trading up and only bringing in four players per year through the draft, that'd be a huge mistake, but I've got no problem with what they did this last year. In my mind, this team had three gigantic holes at the time Mangini came in: Left tackle, cornerback and halfback. I think D'brickashaw Ferguson and Darrelle Revis are top shelf players at their positions, and if the line ever gets their stuff together, I think Thomas Jones and Leon Washington have more than enough talent between them to get the job done. Call me a sunshiner, but one or two nice free agent pickups (Faneca would be a dynamite pickup, and I'd love to acquire a legit right tackle in free agency too) and a decent draft this year and I think this team could be looking good sooner rather than later (subject to Clemens getting it together).
