Geez, i'm not on enough. I missed the day Alio started smoking crack... Excuse me for this... Any yankee fan who says Joe Torre was not a good manager isn't a yankee fan and should go cheer for another team.
anyone who says Joe Torre was a good in-game manager is a delusional Yankees fan. He was not a good in-game manager. He mis-managed the bullpen and made any questionable moves. As a clubhouse manager and motivator, he was great.
That's a more fair way to put it than where I said he was just a terrible manager, period. Obviously he was a very good motivator most of the time (except when he couldn't get his team to wake up in October.) In game is where he absolutely struggled, especially with his management of the pitching. I don't give him credit as being even an average manager, simply because his teams had enough talent to make October every year, regardless of the manager. It's October when they need a leader, and they haven't had one since Torre's original coaching staff dismantled itself. As for anyone who thinks I'm suddenly having hard feelings against Torre, nope. I've always, since the day he was hired, been critical of Torre.
I can't believe the Torre debate is even still going... we have a new manager who I was calling for all year and Torre signed with the Dodgers... the argument is moot at this point IMO
I made a comment, someone said I was on crack, I responded. What's the big deal? There's nothing else to talk about yet. Except ARod, and he's not a Yankee anymore either.
It's not a big deal at all.... I'm just a little surprised it's still being discussed so much.... and crack kills.... don't smoke it :wink:
If you ask me....in fact, even if you don't ask me.... I think Torre is a hell of a good manager. the problem with the Yankees in the playoffs has been twofold recently.. 1. The "lights out" bullpen of the the late 90's left the lights on after that. What's been there the last few years is a far cry from the Rivera/Wetteland combo of the past 2. Above average pitchers, but no reliable cannons. Victory in the playoffs relies heavily on your top 2 starters. The Yankees top 2 starters have not been dominant pitchers in recent years. This is how these smaller market teams and NL teams get there most of the time...they have 2 killers at the top end of the rotation. You can slug your way into the playoffs with hitting. I know, I'm a Red Sox fan, and we did it for years. But in the post-season, the pitching is markedly better than the run of the mill guys you see in the regular season, and bats are unreliable. Two heavy hitters at the top end of the rotation, and a lights out setup man and closer. If Torre had those the last 6 years, he'd have 3 more titles.
Alio, im sorry but your argument doesn't make sense to me. You are crediting the yankees success to the players and pinning their failures on Torre. How come during the 162 game regular season its the high payroll getting the job done but when it comes down to a 5 game series we lose because joe torre sucks. If you dont like him for whatever reason thats fine. I just don't know how you can call yourself a yankees fan and not respect joe torre. a true icon in our teams history and a first ballot hall of famer.
also, im tired of this 200 million dollar payroll bullshit. does anyone here think we have the best team in baseball? our payroll is that high because our management has made extremely dumb desicions with guys such as giambi, pavano, igawa, clemens, farnsworth, mussina. not to mention everyone that signs a contract with the yankees gets overpaid anyway. our roster is not reflective of the 200 mill we have so carelessly spent. im not making excuses but im tired of everyone acting like we should be the greatest team ever year after year. we have tons of holes on our team. our payroll is high because we have the money, but in reality there are several teams better than us.
Good news, IMO. I like the job Long did last year. Pena is good, but I really hope we make a move to bring back Posada. Pena really sparked Jorge's game last year. I'm unfamiliar with Thompson, so no opinion there. Is that Bobby Meachem who used to play for us? And I like that Guidry is out. As much as I was anti-Torre, I was much more anti-Guidry. Plus, Eiland really got the kids in good shape down in the minors. I still remember the game he was so nervous he hurt himself in his first Yankee Stadium start. I like this coaching staff. Good work by Cashman to get this done so quickly. Now Brian, RESIGN JORGE NOW!
Torre wanted Long in LA. That fueled speculation about where Arod might end up. They are negotiating with Rivera. It may be that Posada wants to test FA before starting with the Yankees.
A 200 million dollar payroll allows you to make mistakes and still fix them. Smaller market teams cannot make those mistakes and recover. That's the advantage. ...I'm not excluding the Sox here.
Well, according to an article that was linked to the ARod story junc posted in the ARod thread, the Yankees have been very slow to even speak to Posada, while Minaya has expressed a clear interest in bringing him in. If we allow him to walk, IMO, it opens a far bigger hole on the overall team than the one left by ARod. Molina is great in terms of a quality backup, but Posada is a true every day catcher in a market that doesn't contain a lot of options. As for Mo, the only reason there are negotiations with him and the Yankees, is because he went to the Yankees with his "want list" first.
I never like Guidry as the pitching coach either...always seemed like he was there for show than ability.... and yeah... it's the same Bobby Meachem
we need johan santana.... how does this look? johan santana chien ming-wang phil hughes joba chamberlain
He would be great but we won't give up what they would want for him, nor should we. Let somebody else mortgage their future for him or just wait until the year is over and he is a FA.
It looks awesome. Only one problem. If Santana were to be acquired, the rotation would look more like: Santana Pettitte Wang Moose Kennedy Chamberlain and Hughes would be pitching in Minny. There's no way we get Santana without at the very least, giving up one of them, and more than likely both.
