and we lose when the D gives up 16 points. you can't have it both ways. at the end of games, the D has made far more stops to give as back the ball with an opportunity to tie or win than the offense has scored with the ball late in the game to tie or win it.
Is that what you call this clusterfxck? Agreed! Plus, he's a boring pr1ck, so he gets no extra slack for that.
If Vilma knee is shot like some reports say, he will be in the middle of rehab in the offseason. No way does another team trade for a player in the middle of rehab. I have never heard of that. If they do try and trade him, the Jets would lucky to get a pack of used Trojans.
I'm not necessarily complaining about the trades, I was just trying to support the original debate... Honestly? Our FA losses have been MUCH worse than our trades.... BTW, your evaluations of all those losses, not all that legit..... If it's a FA loss, it doesn't count? And trading one star (Moss) for one we lost in FA (Coles) results in a great trade for us? I don't buy it
I agree, Brad. He (Mangini) looks lost and is too stuborn to make the obvious substitution at QB when everyone else knows it should be done.
No, the comment I responded to was, we always TRADE our stars, which I asked which stars was he referring to that we TRADED. Nothing to do with FA losses. Moss isn't even close to the same level of WR that Coles is, never was and never will be, so yes getting Coles back for only Moss was a great trade for us. What other evaluations do you disagree with? Not one GM in the league would have hesitated to trade Keyshawn for two first round picks, to this day I still can't believe we got two first round picks for him and I loved Keyshawn and still do. You don't think the Abraham trade was a good one for us? Maybe if he was able to stay healthy it would be debateable but to get what turned out to be our best OLineman, you can't complain, especially considering the fact that Abraham was always on the sideline when we needed him most.
I Dont know i believe santana Moss had 84 receptions for 1500 yards and 10 touchdowns the year we traded him so i aint buying that and look at lamont jordan very good runningback we got rid of to keep an aging curtis martin and then what happened he retired and where having trouble with the running game.
I think the Coles for Moss trade wasn't a good deal, because we never should have been in that position... Instead of having two playmaking WRs, we screwed ourselves with Coles, and had to give up a very good player to get him back.... Overall, the trades haven't been terrible, but what I was reffering to was the way you dismissed the FA losses like they weren't a black mark on our organization. They are... We consistently develop very, very talented players, and when they reach their primes, we consistently lose them... And this isn't a current FO issue, or even a current ownership issue... Who knows why, but no matter who is running the Jets, we tend to screw ourselves out of prosperity time and time again.... Sure, we trade a star in his prime in Keyshawn for two first round picks.... A great deal.... But then, instead of capitalizing on that talent, throughout the period those two guys are in the league, we lose our other key players (McKenzie, Coles, then Moss, etc, etc) We make deals to acquire draft picks for our best players, and then we end up losing the guys we drafty some way or another too... Don't be surprised if Mangold's tenure as a Jet (aka the value we got for Abraham) ends up a waste of talent, as usual
I echo the sentiments of those that say the injury will stop him from being traded. He's too good to trade for nothing, and I don't think teams will be so quick to give up a high draft pick for taking a chance on someone that had two sub-par years. I think he stays a Jet, whether he likes it or not, and I want him on the Jets Oh, and I want Mangini too, 4-3 or no 4-3.
Except we still dont know what the injury is, if there is one, and what the prgonosis is. And I'm pretty sure he wants out of here, whether it's this off-season or after his contract is up.
Man - if he is going to be traded ... I will be sad because he's got a lot of heart and the smarts to match. That said, I always like young talent - so if we get a late first rounder for the great Vilma - I'll be content with Tangini choosing someone who will fit their vision more precisely.
I root for the Jets not players. I feel the same about the Jets if Vilma is on or off the team. And he should be traded, he does not fit the team's future. Fact is, that we could have a team next year where all the current Captains are no longer on the team.
I gotta be honest and say I am not 100% certain Vilma WILL be very successfulll somewhere else. We do not play 3-4 anywhere near as much as people seem to think. We play a lot of San Diego 3-4 (3-4 look, 4-3 disguised alignment) and 4-3 fronts. Vilma has not really been effective in any of them. Vilma needs to be the Mike in a perfect situation to allow his side to side pursuit to really pay dividends. Anything short of that, and Vilma will get swarmed under. I like Jon, but trading him is probably in the best interests of everyone involved.
Psst, sorry to break it to you but the running game is not suffering because Lamont is in Oakland. You could have Eric Dickerson back there and his #'s would be just as crappy.
It's not really the allignment that is the difference between the 4-3 that Vilma is good in and the 4-3 the Jets now play it is the gap assignments. The Jets play a 2 gap, and that Wade Phillips/San Diego 3-4 is a one gap 3-4. Big difference. But I agree that trading him is the best option.
