I just read through all the daily Jets articles and something from Hutchinson's column jumped out at me, so I am going to run with it. He wrote: Quote: The Jets' subpar defensive performance against a struggling Dolphins offensive line, anchored by rookie center Samson Satele, sparks anew the debate that they simply don't have the personnel to play a 3-4 scheme and Mangini is tying to force a square peg into a round hole. On paper, there seems to be no way that a team with as much defensive talent as the Jets have -- nose tackle Dewayne Robertson, defensive end Shaun Ellis, an above-average linebacking corps led by Jonathan Vilma, sensational rookie cornerback Darrelle Revis and talented safety Kerry Rhodes -- should be giving up huge chunks of yardage every week. This season the Jets rank 27th in the NFL in total defense, allowing an embarrassing 386 yards per game. After the Dolphins game, one Jets player just shook his head in disbelief when asked how a defense with so much talent could give up so many yards. The player, who requested anonymity because he feared being fined by the club if he spoke publicly about the team's discontent, suggested that players are feeling increasingly restricted in the disciplined structure of the 3-4 alignment because they can't simply run to the ball and make plays. Ten of the Jets' 11 starters on defense come from a 4-3 scheme. Only defensive end Kenyon Coleman, a former Cowboy, has experience in the 3-4 defense. In addition, Mangini's inability to acquire a 350-pound nose tackle to anchor his defense has been criticized. He has opted to use the 310-pound Robertson and 300-pound Sione Pouha as nose tackles -------------- Let's break it down. On paper, there seems to be no way that a team with as much defensive talent as the Jets have should be giving up huge chunks of yardage every week. -First, there is the talent issue. My take is that other than some really terrific players in the league (guys like LT, Brady, Manning, Ed Reed, Urlacher,who can take over a game) there is not a huge talent difference between most teams. Games are often decided by a few key plays, and playoff teams edge out non-playoff teams by a game or two in the standings. The margin of error is small. There is enough talent on the Jets D to play much better than they have. Granted, guys are going to miss tackles, get beat by WRs and overrun plays from time to time, and there is a mano a mano factor that each player must execute. But the dropoff in production from last season by too many guys- Thomas, Hobson, Ellis, D-Rob, is alarming. But there are enough playas to make "it" work. But what is "it"? -"It" is the scheme, and if that little blurb from the article is to be believed, then it is clear that the players are not fully buying into the system. It seems that there is frustration with the scheme and how it is "restrictive". I think this accounts for many of the players, especially the LBs and to some extent the DL, from playing with the kind of reckless abandon that hard-hitting defense need to show. They arent flying to the ball, they are thinking to much and not reacting enough. The scheme is inhibiting their instincts, and it is not me- it is the player Hutch spoke with that said it. Let's look at that sentence again, because i think it goes to the heart of what is puzzling many of us. The player, who requested anonymity because he feared being fined by the club if he spoke publicly about the team's discontent, suggested that players are feeling increasingly restricted in the disciplined structure of the 3-4 alignment because they can't simply run to the ball and make plays. The team's discontent. Wow. This is front page stuff for us die-hard Jet fans. It isnt often that you'll get such an honest window into what is going on in their heads, and this speaks volumes. Now, Mangini needs to deal with this, but i am also placing a large amount of fault on Sutton, who is running the D, and calling the signals. HE has to be at the top of the food chain of his unit, and it does not seem he is effectively running the defense, nor is he commanding the respect of the players. I mentioned over the last day or so that you cant fire all the players, so sometimes when a change is needed, baseball team change managers. There is a valid reason for doing that. Look how the Mets fired their hitting coach over the ASB and the bats have come alive ever since. Sometimes new blood is needed at the top. Sutton is not such a valuable commodity. 'Nuf said. -Mangini's inability to acquire a 350-pound nose tackle to anchor his defense has been criticized. Well, many of us amateurs have already beaten this drum, and unfortunately, nothing is going to change about the NT position. All I can say is that EM is at fault for placing too much faith in an undersized NT. i have said that the NT is the centerpiece of the 3-4, and we dont have a centerpiece. Many posters have said it before, that the current talent isnt compatible with the 3-4. Unfortunately, since there does not seem to be any short term or long term plan to revert to the 4-3, another solution must be found. And if it is going to take several seasons before they have all the 3-4 players they need to run their scheme, then why bother playing Pennington at all. Just go with Clemens if you're going to trash the defense for the next couple of seasons. On one hand, forcing these 4-3 pegs into the 3-4 hole is akin to running an offense where every series calls for setting up the long bomb from Chad to Cotch. It poorly utilizes the available talent on the team. If you are inflexible enough to only want to run a deep pass offense, then dont play Pennington, play Clemens. You play Chad, you devise the gameplan accordingly. The OC has done a good job tailoring the offense to what he has. Why cant the DC do that? On the other hand, barring a complete reversal of scheme, they MUST be more creative and innovative in desgining the scheme and playcalling to maximize what they have. The first three weeks have MINIMIZED the talent. Almost everyone is underproducing! Like I said before, it isnt all the players fault when the entire unit is underproducing. Sure, there are times they line up with four down, but i didnt see the anonymous player referring to that as an out for the problems with the scheme that is CAUSING DISCONTENT. And discontent is not good. There was a lot of discontent in tc with the Kendall thing, with players feeling emasculated about having to practice to classical music, there was a minimum of hard contact that would have toughened them up, and again, there seemed to be issues with the scheme. We've had injuries to DBs, including Dyson, Miller, E. Smith, but the major problems seem to be with the front seven. If they are not buying into this thing, it does not bode well for their production, nor the future of Mr. Sutton, who should be thinking about putting a for sale sign up if things dont get better fast. That is all for now.
Part 2 LOL One day this summer when I was driving home from TC, i was listening to the FAN. it was the day that the fan went to tc, and they were interviewing players after practice. Fatcessa did his usual crappy interview with Vilma, and as soon as it was over, and Vilma left the microphone, Fatcessa went on about how he (Vilma) "hated" the 3-4 but would never say it. "He hates it, but he would never say it on the air". Well, I dont know if they tried to move Vilma over the off-season or not, but he is here, and though a lot of you may disagree, he has been better so far this season than he was last year, in my opinion. he still takes bad angles and gets pushed by OGs, but he has been better. I also noticed they are dropping him back into coverage a LOT more. He has rarely blitzed, and the team as a whole has not blitzed much. That is on Sutton, who is calling the defensive signals. This D is playing on its heels, losing the point of attack at the LOS (which was mentioned in one of the other articles KJ posted) and SOMETHINGS need to CHANGE. They can not vontinue palying like sacks of sh1t. Is Sutton incapable of making these changes? Look, Mangini did a good job last year, as did Schottie, who continues to do well, but i am not under the impression that Mangini is some kind of defensive genius. And if his DC is incapable of devising playcalls and schemes to maximize the talent he has, maybe he should get the boot. Put up or shut up. Hobson was aight last year- not graet, but i thought he was aight. He has sucked so far this year. Thomas? Invisible. It is unvelieable. last year he was coming on, and now he is invisible. Barton? Getting older. Still has the spirit, but may have lost a step. i think this is his last year with the Jets. Harris. He has done well against the run, but I think the CS thinks he is still somewhat of a liability in pass coverage, and they are bringing him along. -Revis. Has been a gem. -Dyson? i dont know. he has the foot injury, but why is he palying at all? He was running with the second team in tc, and there is a reason for that that i am not privy to. Maybe he isnt as fast because of his foot, or maybe he lost step but no one is talking about it. We'll see. -Poteat? WTF? Has he seen the field? -Coleman? Another CB who has been riding the pines a lot. -E.Coleman. he's been game, made more than his share of mistakes so far, but he has been in there most of the time. E. Smith? Another guy who hasnt been playing as much as i would have liked. -Rhodes. hopefully, after a slow start, he is coming on now. -Barrett. i thought he played well against the Fish. He is more of a second teamer that they have been using as a starter. The DL- Kenyon has been good against the run, not much of a pass rush, but he is an upgrade over what they had last year. -D-Rob= D-Small -Pouha- not ptoducing enough to derail D-Rob -Mosley? Where has he been? Ellis? Fair at times, good at times, invisible too many times. But we know these guys can play if they get on the same page and get it going. Who's job is it to put them in the scheme and the position to make plays? The DC. This D has underachieved in all three games. Okay, you want to write off the Pats game b/c they are so good? Well, why wasnt the gameplan to put pressure on Brady? it wqorked last year. He had all day back there. I dont think any of them got withing the same area code as him. -Kyle Freakin Boller? C'mon, we can do better than that. Trent Wffin Green? The Jets D made him look like a pro-bowler. i am sorry, but I think most of this is falling on the CS, for not doing a good enough job implementing THEIR system and tweaking it to accomodate the players they have. So where is the innovation and defensive genius? Where is the creative playcalling? I thought this FO and CS wanted to be cutting edge. Why havent they tried different players to change the CHEMISTRY? Because this is a chemistry thing as much as anything. Why hasnt Poteat, Coleman, DeVito, Mosley or Trusnik played? Shake up the lineup, be creative with the playcalling, be aggressive, stunt, blitz, start swarming to the ball, enough of this vanilla, restrictive crap. I wish i could say I feel better after this rant, but I really wont until the defense starts to play better- a L0T better! Do you hear me, Sutton?
Something certainly needs to be done - maybe even in drastic fashion. No matter how much we all complain about our players be good enough, the truth is we have plenty of talent on the defensive side of the ball to at a minimum be respectable. We are a far cry from that and we really have not lost anyone from last year to account for this sort of drop off. Good post JC.
:lol: :lol: I thought it was a good post though. Our D really does suck ass and it's hard to believe because of the way they started playing towards the end of the season. Between the playoff game in NE and the start of this season something went wrong. I think a lot of the probs with this D would be fixed if we had a solid DT but we don't. The D is playing on it's heals, and it's painful to watch.
Haha I heart that picture in the right spot. :beer: Waddya expect from a guy stuck in trailerhassee? I know i dont expect much.
Mangini has to take most of the blame since he is the one that implemented the 3-4 which has turned Vilma and DRob into below average players. He is trying to re-invent the NT 3-4 position with a smaller player like DRob but it ain't working. Also, didn't they made Pouha lose weight so that he could be like DRob? it's not Sutton's fault if he got players that are better suited to play the 4-3 playing the 3-4. The other teams now know what the Jets defense did last year and they are adjusting to it. This may be the number one reason for the drop off. I think what Mangini is doing, playing the 3-4 without the right personnel is dumb. Maybe is not a genius.
one word why we won't switch the 4-3 EGO !!!!!! mangenius doesn't want to admit that the newspapers and the fans were right, it also looks like sutton is make play calls that reflect a "play not to loose" mentality, similar to ted cotrell, we are way too athletic to restrict our playmakers, in addition i would also like to say that our dline is garbage, nothing is more frusterating to a fan then wastching the opposing qb have all day to complete passes, our d has no edge, no faith and as of right now...no chance.....great post jetcane, a true gem in sometimes a cave of coal
Interesting take and a very good, well thought out post JC. I don't think you'll find anyone to disagree that SOMETHING must be done. Obviously the 3-4 isn't going anywhere so they need to oil that screeching machine somehow. What I don't get and you touched on it is why are all these players who played in the same D last season playing worse this season? I mean, if it's the scheme they don't get making them think rather than react I'd assume they would be better off this season given that they've had a year to get used to it. Negative. We're seeing the opposite. As for the discontent, perhaps that's something that's been brewing for a year but people were willing to give a chance? I suppose this could be causing issues but I'd like to think guys would put team over ego.
I just wanna see some opinions on this, even though I realize it is a bit extreme. I know he has never moved in space or anything, but if anything he might be worth a shot at outside linebacker. Bring in Pouha or Mosley to fill the nose slot, and move Robertson to end, where he is better suited. Thomas Vilma Barton Ellis.. Hey, you never know. At this point, it's up to Mangini to get big bodies on the field to keep blockers off Vilma and Barton. And putting Thomas Coleman Pouha/Mosley Robertson and Ellis all on the line of scrimmage gives opposing offensive lines a lot to worry about, regardless of the fact Ellis would be lost in coverage. We drastically need to make some changes, as stated by Jetcane, and I think getting as many big bodies on the field, around Vilma, can be effective. Imagine the bullrush Ellis could get if he got a running start? I think the coverage in the secondary has been good enough to the point where Sutton can really get creative with the blitz packages. The reason average quarterbacks are beating us up is because no secondary can hold for 6+ seconds without even a body within a five yard radius of the quarterback.
well thought out posts JC. You asked a lot of good questions without making many presumptuous assertions. People do that a lot around here, and when you're addicted to the message board and read it way to often, like myself, it becomes annoying. Firing Sutton is an interesting proposal, but I am willing to give it another game or two to see if they can click.
Good Post , I Agree with you on almost everything , We need to get this D fixed and fast before this season falls in the crapper.
It took the defense a while to get it going last year but it's year two now and I have no answers and a ton of questions with the performance so far. This defense has looked awful, not a single player is playing above average IMO. I am a fan of the 3-4, I liked it in the late 90s when we ran it, but it's clear we don't have the personnel for it yet. I wouldn't be against playing more 4-3 at this point.
Great post JC, and you place blame in a very apt spot. This defense has been absolutely vanilla through the first 3 weeks. We line up in our base defense on just about everything but 3rd and long, and give the opposing team very few new looks. We're not blitzing despite improving our defensive backfield, and we're not playing to the strengths of really any of our players. I fully blame Sutton, and if he's under pressure from Mangini, I blame him as well. I posted on Sunday that the biggest problem I have isn't personnel. Personnel CAN be fixed (although it wasn't this offseason). The biggest problem I have is that I see poor schemes and poor technique which has been leaving gaping holes in both our coverage and our pass rush. This is a very poorly coached unit and has regressed from last season.
Great post Unfortunately, the 3-4 is here to stay. Mangini is sticking by it and if he hasn't changed by now, I doubt it will at any point inthe near future. A 3-4 just can't work without the personnel; at least, you need a space-eating NT to get it started. It's gotten so bad that I don't mind 4 yard run plays anymore. 2004 wasn't that long ago, and we had the #5 run defense in the league and a top 15 pass defense. Personnel wise, I think we're better than we were then because we have a far more talented secondary (our 2004 secondary blew) and better linebackers too. The D-line, however, is definitely worse now. I've wanted to be patient, but the front 7 really are difficult to watch. What has to happen for change to occur? The Pats played out of the 4-3 extensively in the playoffs last year to maximize what they got out of their defense. Personnel wise, I think the 4-3 could still work.
