It's unfortunate to see two top-12 draft picks - Dewayne Robertson and Jonathan Vilma - play in a defensive scheme ill-suited for their talents. In year three and four most franchises can expect some serious returns on their investments - DROB at No.4 and Vilma at No. 12. However, it's now 2007 and a good majority of Jets fans are clamoring that the front office trade away these players; and you can say with good reason. Mangini has every right to implement his favorite scheme - 3-4, 46 or whatever. I'd say it's highly unlikely we trade Vilma before the 2007 season begins, but anything is possible once January hits.
i wonder if this may make Vilma the odd man out then. i don't see why the FO would trade up in the 2nd Round to grab a guy (Harris) who's job is to take on blockers. that seems a bit extravagant, doesn't it? Harris is already making more plays than Vilma, and he's also doing it without a true NT. granted, Harris is 12 lbs. heavier than Vilma, but Vilma isn't really taking on blockers for Harris; not to mention Vilma has much more experience in the NFL as well as a year-up in this scheme.
Well all I was saying is that for Vilma to succeed in a 3-4, he needs another ILB to take on blockers for him. Now Harris could be that guy, or, without Vilma, he could be a 3-4 ILB that just roams and tackles. Meaning that we could design the 3-4 to fit Vilma (such as the Chargers did with Donnie Edwards) and Vilma could be a great player, and Harris could still get 80-90 tackles, but be in a different role, to take on blockers, and not rack up tha tackles he would get if he was next to another ILB his own size. So we could either design the defense around Vilma, and go Chargers style with 1 ILB who is just their to roam around and the other is their to take on blockers, or we could go the way of most 3-4's where there are two guys that are 245+ lbs, and have both Harris and whoever is next to him getting over 100 tackles a year. But I was saying that this defense CAN work with Vilma if we design it correctly. But it could work without him too...
The shame of it, in my mind, is that if the Jets had managed to hang on to John Abraham (or had at some point acquired another player with a similar skill set), they would be able to use more of the types of 4-3 fronts that would get the most out of Robertson and Vilma. Not that theres any reason to think it would work out better than what they're doing now, but Manginis whole philosophy is flexibility, and with Robertson and Vilma theyve got two of the three pieces you really need for a good 4-3 front. It'd be a nice look to be able to use when they want, but without the ability to pressure the quarterback with your 4 linemen, it doesn't really work.
Harris is already making more plays than Vilma? I could've sworn he hasn't even played his first NFL game yet.
I consider you a practical guy so I am sure you realize that the window to trade JV has closed & that at this moment besides a very low round draft choice at best he has zero value since everybody now realizes he is both not strong enough & big enough to play MLB in the NFL
yeah, i get it: preseason games are insignificant. but the fact that Vilma has 0 tackles in 2 games is kind of alarming.
So you're speaking for every GM in the NFL now? You're the only retard that doesn't think he can play MLB in the NFL. You crack me up.
we cannot trade vilma for just a guard, vilma is a superstar MLB in a 4-3 defense, we need to get a starting guard that gets the job done and a nice sized backup to stater MLB for vilma... anything less would be uncivilized. for example if there is a team with a starting mlb who does an ok job with size, and that same team needs a playmaker on defense we can exchange MLB"s and they have to throw in a starting guard, and depending on the value of the guard we can throw in a late round draft pick.
The 3-4 does not work that way. Outside of who calling plays both ILBs share the same responsibilities. Both must take on guards and play a 2-gap scheme. There 2 OGs on either side of center, how can one ILB take them both on when you consider the NT will be taking on the center? Donnie Edwards had "some" success (mostly in pass coverage) in the 3-4 but he was nowhere near the impact player he was as a 4-3 MLB. Like Vilma the Chargers were not maximizing his abilitites to run sideline to sideline. Sme can be said when Ray Lewis played the 3-4 and so on and so on. I don't know what defense we would have with that design but it wouldn't be a 3-4. Being of Haitian decent I love Vilma more than most, but I think it's time we stop making excuses for him. "He never played it before", "he needs time to adjust", "Switch to the 4-3", "redesign the defense", blah, blah, blah. Why is Vilma the only guy struggling? Barton, Thomas, Hobson, Harris and even Robertson to some extent have had no problems adjusting. I'm fearful that by the time the Jets figure out that they will not be able to fit the 4-3 Vilma square into the 3-4 defense circle, he won't be worth a dime.
Because the NT is supposed to take on two players. Any tackle can take on just the center, but the point of a NT is to take on 2 players, the center and one of the guards. Or else any big guy (over 280) could take on just one player, but a big 330+ pound guy is supposed to take on two. Obviously sometimes Vilma would have to take on someone, but it not as much he would have to with a bigger NT, and a big ILB. Donnie Edwards best years came between 2003-2006, where he averaged over 150 tackles per year, in the 3-4 of San Diego. That is more than "some" success, and his abilities were obviously maximized if he could put up those types of numbers.
NEWS FLASH: It is year 2 in this system! Everybody seems to be forgetting that Vilma has about as much experience in a 3-4 as Tom Brady's ex has at naming babies. I think that his intelligence was what enabled him to make a large number of plays last year, but he never appeared to be comfortable in the system. He now will have sured out all of the intellectual intricacies of the defense and his role in it, and should be ready to show us the real 3-4 jon vilma. Let this year be the judge of his abilities in this defense. Yet, do not forget that if the dline is getting blown off the ball and aren't even getting double teamed, then the linebackers have a much more difficult time finding thne ball carrier. So let's go Kenyon, Dewayne and Shaun!
Vilma is a bust. He does not make interceptions, he does not sack the qb, and he does not make tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Oh, excuse me, he calls the defensive signals. My grandmother could do that.
My god, we're not trading vilma.. This is why I hardly post/look in here anymore. Ill be back around draft time, where most posters think logically.
This is simply false. The NT in a 3-4 has a 2 gap responsibility as does the DEs and ILBs. The NT lines up directly accross from the center and must be responsible for the 2 gaps on either side of the center, between the 2 guards. You can't play a 2 gap if you are taking on 2 blockers. I think you are confusing the fact that some of the upper echelon 3-4 NTs are so disruptive that they demand a double team with that being their job. It's a 4-3 NT that lines up between the center and one of the guards. He is the one whose job is to shoot that gap and take on 2 players so that his LBs are free to make plays. the majority of the because he responsible for the gap between those 2 players. Well it's how you measure success. There's no doubt in my mind that Vilma will have well over 100 tackles this upcoming year provided he plays his normal # of snaps. But is he best suited for this defense? Will we be maximizing his talents? I don't think so; but that is just me.
One linebacker can't take on blockers for another in a 3-4. They all need to be able to carry their own load. The answer to finding somebody to take on blockers for Vilma is the put the second defensive tackle in. That's the guy who is close enough to the guard on his side to make sure that he doesn't get into the box on Vilma.
I didn't read most of this thread, but I have friends who are Redskin and Eagles fans and they think Vilma rocks. The only reason Jets fans hate is because he isn't the second coming of Ray Lewis. He doesn't make big plays, but he's still a really good player.
