Aug. 24, 2007 Home > The Way We Hear It Vilma, D-line remain poor fits for 3-4 In Year Two of the Jets? 3-4 defense, we hear that ILB Jonathan Vilma stands as the lone linebacker yet to find his comfort zone. In 2006, the undersized Vilma (6-1, 230) had a rough transition playing the more physical brand of football expected of 3-4 inside linebackers as opposed to 4-3 middle linebackers, and he appears equally underwhelming this season. While fellow LBs Eric Barton, Victor Hobson and Bryan Thomas have all steadily improved, Vilma?s regression was illustrated by his zero-tackle effort against the Vikings in the Jets? second exhibition game. However, it?s tough to place all the blame on Vilma, as an overmatched Jets defensive line provides precious little protection for the linebackers. NT Dewayne Robertson lacks the bulk to be an effective two-gap lineman, and DRE Kenyon Coleman has reached a plateau after an impressive start to camp. But Coleman has at least been decent, which cannot be said for the player he replaced, Kimo von Oelhoffen, who we hear represents a prime candidate to be cut before the regular season commences. DLE Shaun Ellis is the team?s only defensive lineman whom head coach Eric Mangini can feel good about. > http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/default.htm
Surprise, surprise, surprise. This is going to be a major theme on the Jets until they either get better personnel for the 3-4 or switch back to the 4-3.
H'mmm to win with a 4-3 got to have players who can rush the passer. I sincerely doubt Ellis or DeW & whomever plays on the other side are what I would call aggressive powerful PRs. I think that is why they went to the 3-4 hoping that JV would become a aggressive blitzer. Guess that is a move that Man may regret in the future. We already know that the rest of LBers corp of not worthy of generating a PR which why they used Rhodes in that role.
This is becoming a real problem for the team. I know the 3-4 is supposed to give a defense more flexibility and be less predictable, but if you just don't have the players for it, all the flexibility in the world isn't going to matter. Mangini seems to have a bit of a blind spot about this. The best coaches find a way to use the players they have in the most effective way possible. I just don't think the 3-4 lets the Jets do that right now. Haynes, Hicks, Vilma and Robertson are much better suited to the 4-3. Robertson would be a much more effective interior pass rusher in a 4-3. I think at some point, you have to say, enough, we're going to predominantly play a 4-3 this season b/c that's what our players are best at right now.
I assume "PRs" means pass rushers. I think that Ellis, Hicks, Coleman, Haynes and even Thomas should be able to generate a decent pass rush off the corner, and Robertson could generate inside pressure playing alongside Pouha/Mosely. We don't have a Julius Peppers/Dwight Freeney type, but it's gotta be better than the complete lack of a pass rush we have now without sending a safety, two linebackers and Westhof's cane on every play.
I agree with you, but I whole-heartedly belive the Jets addressed this issue in the draft. Revis gives you a shut down cover corner, which only allows the Defenses best athelte in Rhodes to freelance more. Pass -rusher, run stuffer, cover man on big TE's. Harris allows you the luxury of a 3-4 ILB, that can take on and shed blockers. While I admit he did not do that in college...he played in a 4-3, with some real big boys in front of him, his style, techinique and football knowledge, by all written ascounts will or beeter said should allow him to fall into the 3-4 ILB. That ability will then allow your second best athlete on hte Defense to freelance more as well, covering RB;'s out of the backfield, blitzing from multiple formations or dropping into zones. The career lineage of Tannebaum and Mangini shows that they have been schooled in how to properly address their teams short-comings. ANY good coach puts his team and his players in the position to win the game. While Vilma does not fit the mold of the ILB needed, you have got to believe the the coaching staff has realized that. So let's see if Mangini and the DC puts their players in the right position to win the game. My bet is they will!! They have been taught no other way....
Sorry I do not have that kind of confidence in any of the players you mentioned. All of them are ordinary to below ordinary players. In fact BT could not hack it as a DE & was switched to LBer & he has done zippo in the sack department in that role
Well thanks for agreeing with me. Yes I agree Revis & Harris could help but both are TOTAL unkowns at this time. Actually Harris should replace JV as the MLB IMHO as he shown some ability in that role
on the contrary, bryan thomas has bulked up since hes actively playing now, he was originally a 4-3 DE. dewayne robertson is a great one gap undertackle in a 4-3. conditional that the DT next to him commands enough attention. but with his experience in a 3-4 going back to a 4-3 would seem very easy for him. point in case this team is built for a 4-3 but mangini is running the 3-4.
Bulking up & being able to rush the passer is like day is to nite. DeW is way, way, way overrated by most on this board as is JV & Hobson & Barton & Barrett just to name a few
Actually, Bryan Thomas had 8.5 sacks last year as a combo lb/de in our system. He's definitely improved since they moved him and he could still play that role in a 4-3 (like McGinest did). Our two best players on the front seven are Vilma and Robertson, and neither one of them can play well in a 3-4. So why wouldn't you use a 4-3 when that maximizes the production of the two best players in your front seven?
Ha JV best check out JV stats in the his years in the 4-3. You are looking at ALL those tackles but did you notice they were mostly 5 yds DF or more? DeW is DUD a real DUD & when his knee acts up he then becomes a SUPER dud
The only way you wouldn't have TOTAL UNKNOWNS is if we brought in Asante Samuel and traded for Urlacher and Freeney. In season 2 the coaching staff should be able to better assess the players short-comings and inabilities and use the players we got to hte best of their ability. To an extent this wass done the 2nd half of last year, especially on defense as the team with out question improved their overall play... While in the end it is the players the play the game, I can not help but believe that players play better when they are coached properly an dput into positions and by uising schemes that best address their abilities while hiding their short-comings.
Without question....The best DB in last years draft. Now no one is saying that from Game 1 he will be Michael Haynes, but from all written accounts he is the real deal and will be that shut down corner that EVERY team craves....much sooner than later!! BTW, posting a WOW! provides ZERO insight as to why you might disagree with my statement.
The Jets D is going to be far better than most people on this board think. We have an excellent back 8. We are below average on the line for a big time D but we may be able to get enough out of a rotation to make the D work well over all. We have a lot of very talented players on D.
Thanks to "Captain Obvious" for once again stating what we all know. Chump - Has it ever occurred to you that you are not the only one on the planet to recognize this? That perhaps the FO and CS know this also? That perhaps that Harris was drafted to replace Vilma and not Barton? And - despite all your "fantasy football' notions - it takes some time in real life to transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4 before you have the system installed with the players that fit right? Maybe, just maybe, the FO and CS recognize that the team is in only year 2 of the transition. And I would venture to guess that it is not beyond the realm of possibility at the 2008 Draft, that Jonathan Vilma is traded for a high draft pick to a team that runs a 4-3 defense. And maybe, just maybe, the FO will pick-up a big 3-4 nose tackle and move D-Rob to DE in 3-4 -which is where he should be playing ala Ty Warren. Anyway, welcome back and you are now 0 for 5 in bringing a Super Bowl trophy back since you started posting at TGG.com!
what vilma has to do is gain like 8-10 pounds and lose a lil speed with that gain so he can take the punishment.
Klecko73 (or anyone else): I agree that it is just as likely that Harris was drafted to replace Vilma as Barton. I think it is very interesting that in the 2nd quarter and part of the 3rd quarter of both of the preseason games so far Harris has come in as the signal caller and played with Barton instead of Kassell. Kassell has come in in the third and continued with Harris as the signal caller. Both of these moves go completely against the conventional take on the depth chart. As far as the LBs go, it seems to me (please correct me if I'm wrong) that a lot of them are at or near the end of their contracts this season. Vilma is in year 4 of 5 Barton is in year 5 of 5 Hobson is in year 5 of 5 (?) Kassell is in year 2 of 2 The Jets cant be planning on resigning all of those guys, so who steps in to fill their spots when/ if they go?
