Eric Gagne

Discussion in 'Baseball Forum' started by Don, Aug 18, 2007.

  1. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    What is wrong with him? You can't be that bad that many times in a row unless you are either hurt or just washed up. It's not like it's just a few bad pitches.
     
  2. devilonthetownhallroof

    devilonthetownhallroof 2007 TGG Fantasy Baseball League Champion

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    Actually, it HAS been a few bad pitches. His location has been a bit off, forcing him into hitter's counts, and then he has to come over the plate.
     
  3. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    Sorry, I agree with Don. It's very unlikely that a pitcher will consistently be "a bit off" unless he is deliberately trying to avoid throwing strikes, or his motion is messed up somehow (one or two games is one thing, but this is going on two weeks now). That means it hasn't been just a few pitches, but most of the ones he's throwing, that aren't doing what he wants. Even more importantly, it isn't just a given that if a pitcher throws strikes he's going to be tattooed - unless, of course his stuff isn't very good. This is a guy who averaged 10 Ks per 9 IP in his career until he got hurt in 2005, and is still striking people out for Boston - shouldn't he be able to get hitters out even if it's a hitter's count? In 6 innings pitched for Boston Gagne has allowed 17 baserunners, and he has been absolutely awful in 5 of his 7 appearances. If I'm rooting for the Sox, I hope that he has some minor injury that is affecting his motion, or something like that, because otherwise I would be worried.
     
  4. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

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    Whatever it is...keep it up!
     
  5. JoeJet

    JoeJet Banned

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    With Boston, he has made 7 relief appearance for a total of 6 innings. He has given up 14 hits and 10 earned runs. Just as important, he has allowed earned runs in 5 of his 7 appearances.
     
  6. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    The "hitter's count" argument doesn't hold up to careful investigation either. Here are the counts that were on the batters when he gave up each of the hits he's given up for Boston: 2-1, 0-0, 0-2, 2-2, 0-0, 2-1, 0-1, 1-2, 0-1, 3-2, 1-1, 2-2, 0-1, 0-1. That's 2 hits on the first pitch, 3 hits on other even counts, 6 hits on clear pitcher's counts, one hit on a 3-2 count, and two hits when the count was 2-1. In fact, none of the hits he gave up were on clear hitter's counts, and in only a couple was Gagne behind in the count.
     
  7. ScotsJet

    ScotsJet Active Member

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    Why let facts cloud a convenient excuse?
     
  8. devilonthetownhallroof

    devilonthetownhallroof 2007 TGG Fantasy Baseball League Champion

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    1) How many of those at bats started 1-0 or 2-0 and he came back in the count? I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head, but from watching him, it doesn't seem like he's throwing a lot of first pitch strikes. As soon as you throw a first pitch ball, the hitter is at an advantage.

    2) Your location can be off and the pitch can still be a strike, which seems to be happening as well. He's not hitting his spots.

    3) Francona and others have commented that he seems to be overthrowing, which 99% of the time leads to your pitches being slightly up in the zone and more hittable.

    4) I really do believe that it's nothing more than overthrowing and/or a minor mechanical flaw causing his wildness in the zone. If it was an injury his velocity would probably be down, and it's been pretty consistent with the scouting reports on him.
     
  9. Cappy

    Cappy Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]


    Gagne hasn't been good for a while. This is more than just a few outings. He's been hit fairly hard in his "good" outings, and has been trending downward for over six weeks now. His consistency went out the window sometime around the end of June.
     
  10. devilonthetownhallroof

    devilonthetownhallroof 2007 TGG Fantasy Baseball League Champion

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    Best record in baseball + biggest division lead in baseball = no reason to worry at this time.
     
  11. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    Well, your points 2-4 are just giving reasons for why he's not pitching well, and that really was the whole point (and what you disputed in your first post by saying it was only a few pitches that hurt him). I would say that if most of your pitches are up in the zone (even a little), that's not a small problem, it's a big one. As to point 1, I really don't see how the hitter is at an advantage if the count is 1-2, or 2-2, however the at bat started, but in the 14 at bats where he gave up hits, in 9 of them the first pitch was a strike.

    I don't have any idea if he'll turn it around, but I think any argument that he hasn't pitched very poorly for the Red Sox so far is pretty silly.
     
    #11 statjeff22, Aug 19, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2007
  12. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    The point wasn't that you had to worry about the team. It's just that you paid a heavy price for Gagne who will turn out to be a rental as I doubt you would want to resign him unless things change in a hurry.
     
  13. devilonthetownhallroof

    devilonthetownhallroof 2007 TGG Fantasy Baseball League Champion

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    A heavy price? Hardly. The Sox gave up a mediocre starter who has been pitching way over his head, a 17 year old outfielder in rookie ball, and a guy who is a 4th outfielder on a contender but never would have made the Boston roster. Trading Gabbard was the ultimate sell high move. And if he leaves the Sox will get a couple draft picks and possibly get another Ellsbury (compensation for losing Cabrera), Buchholz (Pedro), Daniel Bard (Damon), Mike Bowden or Hansen (both for Lowe).

    Jeff, I'm not saying he hasn't been pitching poorly, but it isn't unfixable. He's looked very good at times as well.
     
  14. Cappy

    Cappy Well-Known Member

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    Whistlin' past the graveyard + false bravado = just about what I'd expect.
     
  15. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

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    :lol: :lol:
     
  16. Boss Revis

    Boss Revis Active Member

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    really dont see how you can spin it any other way... 7 innings, 10 runs..

    yeah...
     
  17. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

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    Man, have you ever followed some of the Political threads??????
     
  18. Barry the Baptist

    Barry the Baptist Hello son, would you like a lolly?
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    My guess.... the steroid well ran dry.
     
  19. devilonthetownhallroof

    devilonthetownhallroof 2007 TGG Fantasy Baseball League Champion

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    Or the fact that he's had multiple surgeries on his arm and back in the last couple years. You know, one of the two.
     
  20. ScotsJet

    ScotsJet Active Member

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    Try not to, would get far too angry for a casual internet session.
     

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