and shall we put Vinny Testeverde into the mix? I think so based on this: +---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Passing | Rushing | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD 1998 nyj | 15 | 259 421 61.5 3256 7.7 29 7 | 24 104 1 | | 1999 nyj | 1 | 10 15 66.7 96 6.4 1 1 | 0 0 0 | | 2000 nyj | 16 | 328 590 55.6 3732 6.3 21 25 | 25 32 0 | | 2001 nyj | 16 | 260 441 59.0 2752 6.2 15 14 | 31 25 0 | | 2002 nyj | 5 | 54 83 65.1 499 6.0 3 3 | 2 23 0 | | 2003 nyj | 7 | 123 198 62.1 1385 7.0 7 2 | 6 17 0 | 2005 nyj | 6 | 60 106 56.6 777 7.3 1 6 | 7 4 2 Now, if you consider all 7 years Vinny played for the Jets including 2005, he passed for 12,497 yards on 1094 or 1854 passes for a 59% completion percentage and 77TD's versus 58INT's! That's plus 19 in 6 years! 189.35 YPG Passing puts him just behind Chad and Kenny...but... ...if you take away 2005 you get 195.33 YPG which puts him in the mix! You also lose a 1TD 6INT year - which makes him look even better at 76/52 for his 6 years... Now how does Todd compare???
now - BOOMER - who only played 3 seasons for the Jets but played 43 games... +---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Passing | Rushing | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD 1993 nyj | 16 | 288 473 60.9 3421 7.2 16 11 | 45 118 1 | | 1994 nyj | 15 | 255 440 58.0 2782 6.3 17 13 | 28 59 0 | | 1995 nyj | 12 | 221 389 56.8 2275 5.8 16 15 | 19 14 0 Again let's break it down: 43 Games for the Jets 764 of 1302 passes - 58.68% - 8478 yards or 197.16 per game - with 49 TD's and 39 INT's. Well, would you put Boomer ahead of the ICON Todd? I think you have to?
I would put Pennington and Vinny above Todd without a doubt. O'Brien possibly, but he stepped into a good team that Todd had to suffer the growing pains with. When the team got bad again O'Brien got worse with it, so that'a a tough call to me. O'Brien never won a playoff game, Todd won two on the road. No way I'd put Boomer over Todd, not for what they did with the Jets. If you include Boomer's Cincinnati days he probably goes above all of them. To me, Todd's numbers (and career) in New Orleans are completely irrelevant.
Oh. Mah. Gahd. A Richard Todd thread. I feel like I just got hit by space junk. Drops out of the sky like flies, you know. Good arm, not that smart. If you put Chad's brain in Todd's body, now we're talking. 'Richard and Walt, It's All Your Fault'. Hehe. I remember that placard. Disgruntled Jets fans. They pawed the ground like wild buffalo back in the day.
Actually you have somthing there. Chads brains in Todds body. Now THAT would have been a GREAT quarterback! ....AHHHH....if only.
ISeafood...did you look at the stats comparing O'Brien and Todd? Not a race - O'Brien is much much better... Same with Boomer's 3 years in NY
I know the stats, I also watched all their careers from beginning to end, stats can be deceiving. O'Brien always had pretty numbers but he also got sacked a lot, which killed as many drives as Todd's INTs but don't count against passer ratings. O'Brien would have been destroyed behind the line Todd had to work with in his first few years. O'Brien stepped into a veteran team that was already good, he didn't have to work behind a line that was slowly being put together one year at a time. He had his best years early, Todd had his late, not coincidentally both were when that team was at its peak. O'Brien also had the benefit of Freeman McNeil and Johhny Hector from day one, along with Al Toon from his first full year as starter. Todd had a decent running game but only three years with McNeil and one with Hector, he never had Toon. Boomer isn't even in the conversation. He put up decent numbers in his first half season here, 1993, we actually had the #1 offense in the league for a few weeks. But they couldn't score a point late in the year and were 8-8, 6-10 and 3-13 in his three seasons, so let's forget about Boomer in this discussion. You can do anything with raw numbers, I'm a salesman, I do it for a living. But all of that doesn't tell the whole story of what was going on in each situation.
Todd was the first "Football God" to me. We got our season tix in '75. When we drafted him I was at the ripe old age of 6 and he became my instant favorite. Every throw in my yard to my Dad was Todd to Barkum, Todd to Walker, Todd to Jones...I never missed. No matter how much the Jets disappointed me it was never Richard's fault...of course looking back at it alot of it was his fault. He had a good OL, high quality WR's a good ruinning game, but would just wind up would make the stupiest mistakes... AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! A little side note. We traded him in '84 to the Saints for there #1 pick. I'm pretty sure it was in the top half of the draft , but I definitely remeber the player we picked.....the one and only #74 Ron Faurot.
Anyone watch Pennington tonight? You'd have to be a comedian to take Pennington over Todd. At least Todd threw the ball downfield. Pennington can't throw a 10 yard pass.
O'brien possibly? O'brien is the best thrower of that group by far. Pennington throws the ball 5 yards, Todd, who i'm a big fan of, but being fair, wasn't the QB that O'brien was, Vinny one big season as a Jet and Boomer one good season as a Jet. O'brien was a multiple Pro Bowl player, a NFL Passing Champ, threw for almost 4,000 yards one season. He's the best QB of that group as a Jet, by far.
ISeafood - you contradict your own arguement... O'Brien had the worse Oline and still had better stats. Todd would have been killed taking the same RECORD number of sacks that O'Brien did. Did he hold the ball too long? Sometimes, but at least he didn't throw it for an INT...a real momentum breaker. I saw them both, and Todd's stats are the deceiving ones. He set passing records in losing games when the other team was playing prevent, and was dumb enough to take the short yardage passes and run out the clock.
How so? O'Brien stepped into a ready-made winner with Powell, Fields, McElroy, etc already established on the line, so he ran up good numbers early in his career. Todd didn't have that luxury, he had to learn while running for his life, playing for a 3-11 team and replacing Joe Namath. I loved both of them, had both guys' jerseys, I think I'm objective. To me the two guys are a toss-up--different strengths and weaknesses, overall package debatable.
Yeah, that's not that big of a deal. The guy was a true Pro Bowler one time- after the 1985 season. He played in the Pro Bowl after the 1991 season after about four AFC QBs decided not to go to Hawaii. O'Brien was not good in 1991.
Ken was an imensly talented QB who played on some great teams and showed a complete lack of guts down the stretch. Todd with that 1 pass in Oakland did more than OBrien did in his entire Jet career. He stood tall in a huge moment on the road. My memory of OBrien as much as his wonderful OT victory against Marino, is having a clear field to go in for a TD and looking like a deer in the headlights.
What happened was that Jim Kensil and Leon Hess got greedy -- and arrogant -- and thought they'd kill 2 birds with one stone: they'd get rid of Michaels (who embarassed the team with his Al Davis Rage-A-Thon after the Oakland game) and keep Joe Walton, who was the hottest assistant coaching prospect after 1982. Walton was the first of many great offensive and defensive coordinators who immediately stunk as a head coach and often never made it at all (Ray Handley comes to mind, too) in the NFL.
Hehe, I thought I saw someone call you Buster Brown. Too much. :lol: Anyway, Michaels' meltdown was after the Mud-Bowl vs. Miami, but he was hung out to dry, no question. Sad. Seriously.
