All things Richard Todd

nyjunc, nice to see we agree that Richard Todd is one of the most overrated Jets by Jet fans of all time...

 

I still have nightmares about the Miami game, I swear the Dull-fins dropped another ten INT's that game, Todd was so bad, I would swear the game was fixed, starting with that jackass Shula making sure the field wasn't covered! Mike Adamle walked out on the field before the game and the water on the 50 yard line was over his ankles, he called the field the biggest disgrace he's ever seen!

 

Yes, I remember watching the game and it was an awful game. Steve DeBerg actually started for SF, wearing a big amplifier stuffed in the back of his jersey so he could call out signals with a broken rib or whatever. Joe Montana relieved him and led the 49ers to the huge lead.

Even as Todd was throwing for all those yards, it was obvious the Jets had no chance to win the game. The final score and stats were purely cosmetic. I don't remember who was calling the game for CBS, but towards the end I clearly remember them saying that Todd's stats will incorrectly go down in Jets history as one of the greatest passing performances ever.

To date the greatest passing performances in Jets history--to me--are Namath vs Unitas in 1972, O'Brien vs Marino in 1986, and Vinny vs Miami in the MNF Miracle in 2000. Todd did throw for 396 yards in a game early in his career that was a more competitive game but still a loss. I think it was 1977 at Shea vs the Raiders but I'm not sure about that.

For the record though, I don't think Todd is overrated because most people don't look back on him with very high regard. If anything, his successes of 1981 and 1982 and the wins in the playoffs are usually overshadowed by the Miami mud game and the year he threw 30 INTs.

 

That was the most exciting Jet game I ever saw, Joe Willie had 6 Td passes, 4 over 65 yards long, he had 15 completions for 496 yards. Al Atkinson came up to Joe after he threw his second consecutive 80 yard TD, and complained that the offense was scoring to fast, and the defense was tired...Unitas nickle and dimed them the whole game...

 

First off, Todd had a plus 430 or so yard game in beating the Rams in overtime. Secondly, Todd in 1981 and 1982 was a very good QB. His numbers bear that out. He had numerous big wins, especially those two seasons. I disagree that he lost them the Buffalo playoff game. He obviously was horrible in the Miami playoff game. Some are underrating his play vs. Cincy and the Raiders in the 1982 playoff. Yes, Mcneil was the hero vs. Cincy but Todd played well and in the Raider game, the Jets beat an excellent team (better then Miami) in their own building. A team that would win a Super Bowl the next season, beating a QB (Plunkett) who was undefeated in playoffs for his career up to that point.

Other then those seasons, and some good moments, Todd wasn't anything to brag about, no doubt about that. But geez, how many Jet QB's had the amount of good moments he had? For the record, and some mentioned this, but Ken O'brien was a far superior QB to Todd, over his whole career. Some mentioned that Todd was better. Not the case. Kenny O'brien was a very good QB. A Pro Bowl QB. A NFL Passer rating winner. He took criticism cause he ended up getting hit too much and cause he was drafted in front of Marino. But he was an underrated, solid NFL thrower. Probably the most unappreciated player in Jets history.

 

Todd had good years in '81 and '82 but he absolutely killed us in our 2 playoff losses in those 2 years. Those teams were immensely talented and he was the main culprit in both losses.

I started watching games in '81 so those early 80s teams are special to me and I loved todd as a kid but as you get older and understand what was really going on you realize the guy wasn't that good- there is a reason they drafted a 1st rd QB a few months after the Jets made the AFC Title Game w/ Todd.

 

This has been an interesting thread to say the least.

I started to follow the Jets in the 1973 season. Joe Willie was pretty bad during his last 3 or 4 years and if I was to grade him based on just what I saw....he was horrible! If I understand history correctly Namath, on the field he had three great years 1968, 1969 and 1970. He had a few exciting games after that but those three years was it. I remember a game in the rain against the Dolphins in the mid 70's that we lost something like 43-0 with Namath at the helm. But most of us Jet fans see him as a God and he is in the HOF.

I liked Todd when he was at Alabama and it was so cool that my favorite college QB was drafted by the Jets. The kid did stutter(sp?) and it is in poor taste to make fun of that. And he was a nervous reck coming to NYC and taking over for Namath. He was thrown to the wolves. Out team sucked and his OL sucked. The NY fans in Shea were terrible with him. While the Shea fans that thought they were so cool for booing him like that most football fans outside the area thought the Shea fans were idiots. What a way to support your QB? It was no wonder he flipped them off and Serby deserved to be slammed into the locker. I remember the NY Post picture of poor Serby with a bandaid on his nose pointing to his throat...what a joke.

I can go on and on. Todd has always had this love/hate deal with Jets fans and that has not changed. When you look at the facts of how he came in under Namath's shadow (who just had 5 bad years in a row...I do not remember the mental giants at Shea booing him like that). He took over at QB probably the worst team in the NFL with a horrible OL and lousy coaching I think it is actually a miracle that he had the successes he did have in the early 80's...we won't even get started on Matt Robinson.

So, while a lot of you vote him as overated. Knowing everything about those years, give him a good OL, a good coach and some good fans...I would vote him as underated.

 

I think the comparisons with Todd and Pennington are rather interesting. Even though they are polar opposites in terms of how they play the position, there are some great similarities as well.

Both guys won big playoff games only to have them overshadowed by losing in the later rounds, causing fans to focus on how it ended rather than how they got there. Both had to come in on the heels of the two most popular QBs in Jets history. While Vinny didn't win us a Super Bowl like Namath did, he was a local kid and came in with the biggest bang (on the field) of any QB in the history of the franchise, hands down.

Pennington came into a much better situation than Todd did, in terms of the team around him, coaching staff, and the time he had to prepare before getting the job. Plus he had Vinny still there with him to help him along, while Todd bore the brunt of Joe being released and later had to fight for his job after getting hurt. They had to build the team with Todd in there taking his lumps, while with Chad, the Jets made the playoffs the year before he took over and he led them back there after a rough start. Chad built up some early credit with the fans that it took Todd a long time to earn.

The good thing is that the book on Pennington isn't finished yet, so hopefuly it will hae a happier ending and leave a better lasting impression than Todd did. I always liked Todd, I thought he was a fighter and I was upset when they traded him.

 

You bring up excellent points about Todd that I agree with. I've been watching and following the Jets since 1970 and you're right, Todd never got a fair shake from the fans at Shea or from Joe Walton in 1983. Walton consistently berated Todd in front of the world. We all know what kind of coach Walton was. I hated that guy! You have gotten a number of things wrong about Joe Namath. Namath was great in 1965 as he won AFL rookie of the year and held the record for most TD passes by a rookie for a number of years. In 1967, Namath passed for 4007 yards. The first player in football to pass for that many yards. That record stood until the NFL expanded to 16 games. Namath was hurt in 1970 (broken wrist), so I don't know why you counted that as a great year. In 1972, Namath was named to the Pro Bowl (he didn't play), named All-Pro and threw for the most yards and passed for the most TD's that season. In 1974, Namath was named NFL comeback player of the year and led the Jets to six straight wins, including victories over the defending champion Dolphins and playoff bound Bills. In fact the 1974 Jets were the closest Jets team of the 1970's to make the playoffs, if they had won a close 14-12 game over the Bills, they would have been the wildcard in the AFC. So Namath had more than three great years.

 

That was my first year watching the Jets, I was 7. I remember them opening the year with a loss at KC, beating the Bears at Soldier Field in week 2, then losing six straight, then winning six straight. I also recall the 14-12 loss to the Bills.

That 6-game win streak to end the year started with the win over the Giants at the Yale Bowl, with Joe tying the game on his bootleg TD, then hitting Boozer for the win in OT. Later they beat Miami at Shea when Joe hit Richard Caster with a bomb late in the game. I didn't realize they were that close to the playoffs though.

 

I know I am joining this thread a little late, but having been a Jets fan since 1966, I wanted to add my 2 cents.

First, Todd was a good, but not great QB. He had two very good years in 81 and 82. To say he "choked" in the big game is really somewhat unfair. The 1981 Jets were a young team that nobody expected to make the playoffs, especially after starting the year 0-3. The first quarter of the wild card game against the Bills resulted in a hiccup as the Jets fell behind 24-0 for a myriad of reasons, not solely because of Todd's play. Todd then did lead a miraculous comeback only to fall short with the interception from the 11 yard line. Some things I remember about that game. First, in the second half, with the Jets down 24-10 and deep in Buffalo territory, Michaels passed up a field goal and went for it on 4th down and the Jets were stopped. In retrospect, the Jets could have used those three points and won the game with a late FG rather than needing the TD at the end. Second, Gastineau completely blew a potential fumble recovery by trying to pick the ball up instead of falling on it. Lastly, when the Jets had cut the lead to 24-13 going into the 4th quarter, the Jet defense inexcusably let Joe Cribbs run wide and scamper for a 45 yard TD that increased the lead to 31-13. There was plenty of blame to go around.

As to 1982, the Jets were 6-3 (it was a strike season) and would not have made the playoffs had the NFL not expanded the playoffs to 8 teams in each league. At that time, five teams made the playoffs and the Jets, after losing to an inferior Chiefs team on the last game of the year, were the 6 seed entering the playoffs. The Jets then defeated the #3 seed Bengals and the #1 seed Raiders before losing to the #2 seed Dolphins. Todd won two playoff games because there was an extra playoff round that year.

Todd won some big games for the Jets also - Miami and Green Bay in 81, the two playoff games in 82.

 

More musings:

I have as much dislike for Shula as a coach than any coach in NFL history. He was a despicable man. The mud bowl was one of the poores exhibitions of sportsmanship in NFL history. NFL rules require a field to be covered within 48 hours of a game. Shula left the Orange Bowl uncovered with torrential rains because the Jets were a team built on speed, while he had a plodding running game, virtually no passing game, and a good defense (the killer B's). Yes, the Jets and Dolphins played on the same field, but the conditions favored the Dolphins. Also, Shula knew the game could not be moved or rescheduled because it was played on a Sunday and with the strike, the Super Bowl was played with only a week break. The game could not be moved to Monday night. As for the Dolphins being a better team, we will never know. They did beat the Jets twice before in 82, but the first was the first game of the season and in the second, the Jets outplayed the Dolphins but lost because Leahy, I believe, missed two extra points and the Jets lost 20-19.

As was also mentioned, Shula was the only coach on the competition committee at that time and, coincidentally, the Dolphins rarely played an AFC East opponent on the road in December (name me a December Jet home game against the Dolphins in December in the 1980's). Plus the Dolphins always had multiple home Monday night games late in the season. The Dolphins were also a physical defensive team back then, but miraculously were the least penalized team in the NFL for years.

Lastly, someone mentioned that Shula did more with less than other NFL coaches. I disagree. With all those advantages, he only won two championships all the way back in 72 and 73. He coached another 20+ years with no titles. He arguably had the best QB in NFL history and couldn't win with him and only got to one SB with him. He is very overrated in my book. And a snake. The snow plow game was just what he deserved. Interstingly, after the snow p

 

The reason the 1983 Jets did not play at the level of the 1981 and 82 Jets with the same personnel was because Michaels was fired after the 1982 season and Walton took over as coach in 1983.

 

As for Pennington vs Todd, I give the nod to Pennington. I think he has done more with less. The 1981 and 1982 Jets were Super Bowl caliber teams. The 2002 and 2004 Jets were surprises and nobody expected playoff wins let alone Super Bowls.

Look at the difference in personnel.

OL - The Jets of the early 80s had Marvin Powell, Chris Ward, Joe Fields, and Dan Alexander in their primes. The Jets of the early 2000s had Kevin Mawae and . . . . . .. Jason Fabini?

There is no comparison on defense, however. The Jets of the early 80s had Klecko, Gastineau, Lyons, Mehl, Buttle, Ray etc. Only two teams gave up less points and three teams less yards in 1981. The Jet defenses in 2002 and 2004 did not compare in terms of talent and performance. Ellis and Abraham did not compare to Klecko and Gastineau. The linebackers were weak in 2002 (old Jones and Lewis) but better in 2004 (Vilma) but did not compare to Mehl and Buttle.

Pennington took the 2002 team to the playoffs. Todd never put a team on his shoulders and led them to the playoffs. Pennington is a better QB in my eyes and is doing it with less in terms of physical tools.

 

That's all anyone needs to know about what happened in 1983.

Great points in your previous posts, especially regarding Todd. No one here was saying he was a great QB. But, if you watched the Jets and know about them from the start of Todd's career in 1976, you know he wasn't a terrible QB or primarily at fault for EVERY playoff loss. He had a terrible game in the Mud Bowl. Obviously for some fans he will be villified for that game and only remembered for it. Even though what Shula did to the field ruined the Jets speed attack. Why not blame that moron Walton who was the OC for not adjusting in the second half? No one ever talks about that.

 

I totally agree!

 

Good point. We did have Mike Augustyniak and Dwayne Crutchfield as RBs and Mickey Shuler and Jerome Barkum as TEs that could have been used more or at least tried. All but Crutchfield had been contributors in the past.

 

As much as I loved McNeil and even though he was the NFL's leading rusher in 1982, I never understood why the Jets didn't swtich to Crutchfield in that game. Crutchfield was a big bruising North-South runner who would have clearly been more effective in that mud.

 

Let's end this ass-kiss fest - the guys was not good, not bad - super and awful all in one. What does that make him?

Second, the crap about having a good offensive line? The Jets had an excellent O-line around Todd! Marvin Powell should be in the HOF and protected his blind side from 1979 on. Joe Fields was another pro bowler at C, and Dan Alexander was close at G. In 1980 we drafted Chris Ward #1 to be the RT - so how bad was our Oline? Heck, they helped a running-back-by-committee of Gaines, Long and Dierking lead the NFL in rushing one year!

In addition to that he had a super receiving corps of Walker - the games top speed WR - Derrick Gaffney - one of the best possession receivers in the game - Mickey Shuler - one of the best TE's in the game - and excellent receivers out of the backfield like Gaines (who Todd KILLED in the SF game where he set the record) and Bruce Harper.

Then he had the luxury of the Sack Exchange Defense to give him the ball, which Todd more often than night either gave back with an INT or Fumble, or a bad throw on 3rd down. I would love to know his 3rd down conversion rate?

COACH? The same guys now praising Todd praised Walt Michaels (who took over in Todd's 2nd year) who was Todd's protector at his own risk. They brought in Joe Walton as QB guru, and although a lousy HC he was a top notch QB coach. The main reason he became HC was to cover Todd's ass...how did that work out?

See, the Jets had everything BUT the QB! With a smart, tougher, better leader at QB - that NY Jet team of the 79-83 era wins at least one SB! Under Todd - NO WAY!

 

I couldn't agree more with this assessment......

It is extremely depressing watching Jets games from that era on tape - particulary the Bengals and Raiders playoff games - knowing what a great team the Jets assembled and how it would all come apart in Miami. It took almost two decades for the franchise to recover from that game and in some aspects it never has....