This is a poll that needs to be taken 10-15 years fro now when sanity can return to alot of Jet fans. I am not getting into another long argument about this, the facts below say all we need to know: -Herm took over after 4 coaches either quite or declined to be considered PLUS Parcells also declined to come back after '00. -Herm took over a team that missed the playoffs 2 straight years and 12 of 14 years and he guided them 3 of his first 4 years and 3 of 5 overall w/ the 2 missing years being years we lost Chad and more. -Herm took over a franchise that in 40 years had 8 total playoff appearaces and in just 5 years he guided the Jets to 3. -Herm took over a franchise w/ ONE AFC East Title and 3 div titles overall and he led us to a div title that interuppted a DYNASTY. -Herm needed a win to get into the playoffs in week 17 of '01, he faced a team playing for a bye and at a place we hadn't won at since we were the NY TITANS and he led us to the W(unlike '97 and '00 where we lost in week 17 to miss the playoffs). -Herm took over a franchise w/ 2 road playoff wins in history and both came in 1982 and Herm led us to a playoff win at SD w/ a QB that had a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder AND a building where SD din't lose a game that year to any team beside the Jets.
Herms good for about ten wins per. Not bad, not the hall of fame either. My problem with him is the sense of impending doom I always felt. Bellichek was once quoted after a bad pasting of the jets that sometimes the game is won before you play it. Herm made the playoffs 3 out of five, but honestly, some of that success is attributable to parity in the league now --ie: '02 with 9 wins (same as Pats and Phins) on the third tie breaker. He just didn't make me feel like the dark cloud that hovers over this franchise was going away any time soon. And he has a lot of company in that respect. But I agree this vote is premature.
I believe that quote was from the Sept '02 game while in dec we beat thm up at Foxboro which was thereason we won the div and not NE. Parity has been around a long time and we weren't making the playoffs regularly pre-Herm. We made it at 8-8 in 1991 andthat was our only playoff appearance from 1987-1997.
In 6 years he has 2 10 win seasons and zero seasons with over 10 wins. He has a slightly better than a 500 record coaching very talented teams where he took over well established programs that won consistently better than at 500. He never raised the bar and in 1 5 year program left the team he coached near the bottom of the league in every catagory.
He left the team nr the bottom b/c of INJURIES, we saw what a healthy team looked like last year and again he was not the GM but the Gm left alot talent for th current regime. 20 win sesons but 4 playoff seasonsin 6 years. Lt's sze that up w/ the restof the coaches since 2001: Dungy: 6 Belichick: 5 Reid: 5 Cowher: 4 Herm: 4 holmgren: 4 Sherman: 4 Billick: 3 Shanahan: 3 Gruden: 3 Schottenheimer: 2 Fisher: 2 Fox: 2(began in 2002) Coughlin: 2(didn't coach in '03) Only 3 HC's that hav coached since 2001 have more PO appearances and Herm also has more playoff wins in that span than Brian Billick, ike Shnahan, Marty Schottenheimer, Tom Coughlin and Jeff Fisher. Not bad for a guy who can't coch who took over a team no one want to coach.
The only issue is wether he is a good enough FOOTBALL COACH. Football seasons have a lot of variables including competition, injuries, luck etc etc.... Was Herm Good enough?? "Herm was only good enough to take us so far and was NOT good enough" - ny junc
Good post.... PARITY was Herms' best friend.... There's few head coaches in the league that this guy was going to outcoach out game plan or outsmart.... He'll Out Talk anyone though.... Love his interviews Still :rofl:
Favorable 19 22.89% Unfavorable 64 77.11% Sounds about right...... If you asked a non Jets fan to rate their opinion on his COACHING ability and FOOTBALL knowledge, I'd suspect the results to be even worse for Hermy....
I think that pretty much sums it up. The guy seemed content with making it into the playoffs, and seemed to consider everything else gravy. Not once during those playoff years did he seem to think "if I push the guys harder in training camp, maybe we'll just do a bit better since hard work pays off after all." or anything like that. It was the same routine, year in, year out. We reached a stagnation point by the end of 2002 where the coach needs to push the players to do better than their God-given ability, and Herm just didn't do that from that year henceforth. Age caught up by the 2005 season for some key guys (although more Bradway's doing than Herm's) and it was obvious that Herm's inability to give the backups any playing time ruined that season even further. I don't think he was a terrible coach, I just think he was very "meh" at best.
In the big picture, over the long haul, the coach makes all the difference in whether you're a good team or a bad team, yes. That's why Bill Parcells went 9-7 with virtually the same team that Rick Kotite went 1-15 with. But once you get into playoff games, they are all good teams. Especially when you get there three times in your first four years, that much is established. You're a good team with a good coach. Then you're talking about one game that determines if you're a winner or a loser, and that comes down to guys making plays, kicks, etc. For all the accolades guys like Bill Parcells and Bill Bellichick get, they wouldn't have the trophys if their kicker was Doug Brien. Matt Bahr made 5 FGs for the Giants to reach the Super Bowl, another to give them the lead, and they still needed Scott Norwood to miss for Parcells to get his second ring. We don't even need to discuss where Bellichick would be without Adam Vinnitieri, and for that matter, Tom Brady. There's only so much a coach can do when you get that far.
Parcells had the best team in football once and won a SB with it. The team he got to the second SB and won with was one of the great coaching jobs in the last 20 years.
True, and I'm not trying to sell him short, but guys still have to get it done on the field. I'm not putting Herm in that category, by the way, just using some of the great coaches as examples to make my point.
Did you happen to catch the "America's Game" piece that NFL Network did on the later Giants SB team? Another production Gem- shed alot of light on guys like Hostetler, Otis Anderson, etc.
off topic for a moment- Did you see the one they did on the '68 Jets? There was alot of Namath bashing in that documentary most notably from Gerry Philbin.
Didn't see that one, but a few nights ago they had a piece on the 17-0 Dolphins. All of the other sports networks should take some pointers from the NFL network guys. They take a team that you might not even have any interest in, and by the 59th minute you're screaming at the top of your lungs, rooting them on.
A great coach with great talent is of course better than a great coach with average talent. With that said... Matt Bahr did make those 5 field goals. Question is, would he do it for another coach, on another team? If you give credit for Parcells for the improvement of 97 - 98, why wouldn't you give him credit for having/coaching a player like Bahr who made 5 FGs? If a coach won't tolerate missed tackles, dropped passes, fumlbes, or mental lapes that is in part what makes him a great coach and it affects the entire culture of his team. That is why I have a problem with Herm. I always felt that he tried to delegate his ULTIMATE responsiblity. Delagation is important and necessary in running a team, but ulimately the buck stops at the HC. Herm always seemed to think that it was accceptable to hold someone else ultimatley accountable. A HC can never be a 'great' unless he is willing to take full responsibility for what is happening (or not happening) in his organization. I have always contended that this was Herms fatal flaw.
All true, and that's why coaches make a difference over the long haul, but there's only so much you can do once the game starts. That's my whole point. You have one kicker for the game--if Bahr was off that day in SF, Parcells would have been up the creek. The Jets replaced Brien after the Pittsburgh game, but it was too late then.
Above and beyond the 1970 merger, the smartest thing the NFL ever did was to hire the Sabols to film and tell the story of the NFL as it has evolved. Not only has NFL Films created an endless archive of games and interviews, they have told the story of the players, the coaches and the fans. By doing so, they have humanized the league to a level that the everyman can relate. On Herm, I'm not so much a critic of his coaching (though I believed post-2004 that we would never win the big one with him at the helm because he couldn't outstrategize Belichick/Weis/Crennel/Mangini) as I am a critic of his hypocrisy. Parcells and Belichick, for what it's worth, are hypocritical liars in their own way but you know what you're getting with them. They don't try to be anyone other than that. They're conniving manipulators, but that's part of their charm, ironically. Herm, on the other hand, talks about all the life's lessons he learned from his Dad ("you gotta sweep the corners, son"), he talks about the privilege it is to play in the NFL and how there's an image to uphold, he portrays himself as the Dungy disciple who puts God above everything else. But then he lies his way out of NY in the two-bit manner of a ambulance-chasing lawyer. He assumes, wrongly, that we're all too stupid to read between the lines. Sure, Woody wanted him out by the end, but I think Woody finally woke up to the BS. I have no problem with a guy trying to get more money, or to pursue a better opportunity. That's his right, and this is America afterall. But don't be a f'in hypocrite by telling me how you walk on water while holding your bible and preaching the Good Word. Herm needs to admit he's like everyone else, and move on. I'd have a hell of a lot more respect for him if he did.
