BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, for the Jets hring these clowns for those jobs was the biggest mistake - But, Taking a veteran roster and try to make a throwing QB into a WCO QB and take older LBs and make them play so made up hybrid cover 2 defense was just STUPID. Anyone will tell you it takes years to implement a WCO yet these guys wanted to win now AND change systems.... just not logical... Either they should have dumped the roster and got guys who play their systems or they should have COACHED and put the players they had in position to succeed.
"legendary" S&C coach? when did he let him go? Lott decided to go to Cleveland, herm didn't fire him and Mawae wasn't great in '02 or '03 and Lott was there and the same S&C coach we had in 2005 we had in 2006 PLUS we had a million injuries in 1999 under Lott. Lott doesn't get blame for Vinny's achilles just like Markus paul didn't get the blame for mawae's tricep. http://jets.scout.com/2/351996.html What? he was such a victim that atema gave up a 1st rd pick and severely overpaid for him. The guy developed into a top notch WR in that conservative offense. he hurt his toe eiher during '03 or '04. he aveaged over 14 yds per rec in '01 and '02 in the conservative offense and averaged over 14 yds in 2003 w/ Washington. incorrect, Robertson made ferg alot of money in FA. Robertson made our 2004 DL go and ferg benefitted from O's having to double Robertson and Abe/Ellis. we didn't misshim for a second, mckenzie stepped in and we never knew Young was gone. Richie wasn't great and neither was Sowell, we never had a real blocking FB. both sowell and richie were good dump off receivers out of the backfield but laked in the blocking dep't.
and they did win now and change the system. they were a playoff team in 2001 and 2002 w/ the WCO offense and had diff Qbs in each year. Why was changing systems a major blunder for Herm but changing to the 3-4 last year was not? You guys are so hypocritical it's hysterical.
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You see - the difference is Mangini is actually a COACH - His goal is to have a defense that is versitile with multiple fronts that can switch in and out of defenses where you really can't label it a 3-4 or 4-3...... His goal is to put players in a position to succeed and to confuse the offense... It's not to force anything on anyone.... And as for Vilma - Maybe his stats won't be as good but, the overall defense is better and Dewayne is a liability regardless of the defense, The Jets didn't stop the run any better in Herms defense with Dewayne and the guy has a medical condition and probably won't be around long term regardless of the D.... You don't install a defense based on Dewayne Robertson guy. HOORIBLE DRAFT PICK. Herm didn't even have a defense - He forced a 3-4 DC to implement some hybrid BS of a 4-3 and Tampa cover 2 which was an absolute mess with no answers every week to the point where the press conferences were a complete embarrasement. Herm had no answers - Guy is clueless when it comes to the systems.... That's 1 reason why the guy rambles and babbles so much - HE DOES NOT KNOW. Herm Never cared what the opponent was doing, bever cared to adjust and never cared to confuse them- His Motto and I'll look for the exact quote was "As long as we line up and do what we could do, it doesn't matter what the opponent does" MORON!!!! Yeah, sure if you can't outcoach the other guy. Flash to Mangini - They make changes (WOW) adjust and you actually saw the improvement on the field ALL in 1 year..... UNBELIEVABLE that you have the never to compare Herm's Tampa Cover 2 Complete Mess to the hybrid, mulitple front SMART defense we're seeing bud before our eyes... I think you're killing yourself here in front of anyone who might have thought you knew what you were talking about - You're off the wall here.
Read on Boy Wonder.... Amazing you would ask such a question and not be able to see the difference yourself.
Mangini isn't forcing a 3-4 defense on anyone - The goal is to be versitile so the COACH can actually Adjust to the offense and has the ability to make changes onthe fly...... Herm was a line em up and see what happens BOZO..... Cuz that's ALL he could do - He couldn't, ummmmmmm...COACH.... The fact that Herm is a complete X's and O's IDIOT kills 99.9 % of your arguments....
He took a D that was a top 5 D that almost had us in the AFC Title Game in 2004 and made them look like crpa for half the year then they did get better as the season went on BUT our best defensive player looked very average in the new system and as good as Robertson played the 2nd half he is not best suited for this system and was nothing compared to his '04 season. I don't have a problem w/ new coaches changing schemes(although it can be frustrating) just so we know. This was about people like you who whine when herm dos it and appluad when Mangini does it. I don't care about Vilma's stats and even though he wasn't as "bad" as people think he still wasn't the playmaker we drafted and the overall defense in 2006 wasn't close to 2004. points allowed: 2004- 261(4th) 2006- 295(6th) rush yds allowed: 2004- 1,566(5th) 2006- 2,084(24th) Rush yds per attempt: 2004- 3.62(4th) 2006- 4.60(27th) rush TDs: 2004- 8(5th) 2006- 14(22nd) We saw the improvement in 2001 in the first half compared to the 2nd half where they made adjustments and were great the 2nd half of the year. I think you are taking this off topic b/c, as usual, you don't have an argument. I never said I had any problem w/ mangini changing the D, i bought it up to show you the hypocrisy of praising mangini while bashing Herm for doing the same things.
The fact you don't even know what I am arguing doesn't help you. AGAIN, i brought up herm's changing the D to mangini just to show what a hypocrite you are and our D sure wasn't versatile last year, i hope they arein the future but they weren't a year ago.
I apologize for laughing, I just think it's a little naive to think they left for those reasons. to have 4 coaches decline the job and one of them twice- something has to be up.
LOL.. All while completely failing to rememeber the 3-4 DC we had coaching as they made up the scheme as they went.... My complaint isn't changing the defense as much as having a defense and a scheme with a plan in the 1st place.... That Jet team that Herm had was older on defense and was a team that was built to win now (By Parcells)..... I don't think you make drastic changes on a team like that, especially when you never coached defense youself and you hire a guy who has no clue to the defense you want to run. Mangini didn't take a bunch of old dogs and try to teach them new tricks... He's building and has a plan.
if it was built to "wion now" why couldn't they win w/ BP and w/ Al groh? we had a mostly veteran D, a D that was a legit top 5 in 2004 so yes he did teach old dogs new tricks and again I have no problem w/ that. It was frustrating much of the season but they did start to improve around midseason just like in 2001 the D struggled early and was great in the 2nd half of the year.
I'm sorry, which old dogs were taught new tricks? Barton? Dyson? Pretty sure the rest had either played 3-4 before or were in their first few years in the league? Robertson, Hobson, Vilma, Rhodes, Coleman, Coleman, Smith, Miller and Thomas were all playing on their rookie deals, no? (Though Thomas re-upped during the season.)
There's no camparison. This is a younger defense being molded to be a Mulitple front defense that confuses opponents... That defense back then was old and was taught a system that even the coaches didn't know- Guy also wants to compare a defense after years of working on it to the 1st year of a new defense.
Funny how you only list the stats from 2004, which was probably the best year for the defense under Herm. What about all of the other years where we couldn't stop the run. One year out of five doesn't make a successful defense.
junc i'm cool as long as we both agree that mangini is a much better coach for the team now them herm could be. we have a difference of opinion on herm, but that's ok we're both entitled to our opinions. but to answer your question i dont think kc is making the playoffs in the next 3 years, and if larry johnson gets hurt i'll be surprised if they can even get to .500.
obviously it was his best D and I posted that year b/c Jet Blue wrote "the overall defense is better" and that clearly wasn't the case. In '01 and '02 the Ds were excellent the 2nd half of the season alot like this year's D but '04 was the one year where we were really good start to finish. i honestly don't care if KC makes the playoffs nd it doesn't matter. itwon't change thefact that Herm did a GOOd job here, he wasn't great and he didn't finish the job but he did a good job here and I appreciate it. I think mangini has the ability to be a GREAT coach and I am very happy we have him and I would never trade back.
Good gawd you are redundant. Some of the worst run defense I have ever seen was when your hero was coach of the Jets. the most predictable playcalling in the history of football (and that includes high school or college) were made during Herm's tenure. Almost destroying Shaun Ellis when trying to move him to DT.good coaching! What,exactly did Herm do that was good? be specific.
In 2006 we were 26th against the run, Shaun ellis had his only pro bowl year under Herm, the playcalling was predictable but we had good offenses. Remember e were 25th in offense last year. Every time I try to put this to bed someone comes in and posts nonsense again to get me going.:breakdance:
