Coles is past his prime and has a year or two at best. Vilma will never be more than average in the 3/4 and will demand a big pay day when he's rookie contract is over.
it?s also a big risk, not to trade vilma, cuz if he struggles another year, we won?t get anything for him next offeason and will be gone in 2 years. And maybe, Vilma is the one, who wants to be traded.
We don?t have to to up to No. 2, CJ won?t go before tampa picks, in that case a possible trade with the Bucs could be vilma+coles+our first for CJ+their second (36th overall) we would still have 3 2nd and 1 third round pick to pick up a replacement for vilma, a guard, a CB and a tweener or TE or DL or WR on day 1. I would really like this trade.
I'm in complete agreement with both of those statements, at least as long as Chad is QB. A QB with a stronger arm would extend Coles for another season or two beyond his current horizon due to the lack of concussive hits on short lobs that happen now. Why did Chrebet retire so quickly after Chad took over, and at a relatively young age? Because Chad left him hanging in dead-man's land several times with slow-arriving passes in the flats and across the middle. Might have happened anyway, but was guaranteed to with Chad at the helm. Leon Washington, BTW, will be the next victim in this chain of events if Chad keeps the job much longer. All of that said, there is no way the Jets do anything other than languish next year if they bundle 2 or 3 talented players to move up for one guy. The Jets do not have the talent to support diminishing their depth significantly to take a chance. Trade Vilma, Coles and the 25 for Larry Fitzgerald? No problem. Trade them for Calvin Johnson? Trip to the depths of the AFC East.
One Problem is Bucs want Calvin johnson bad. They aren't taking Coles,Vilma and 25 pick in a draft . Yea they are going to trade for a Older WR when they can have a Wr, that going to be the face of their franchise for next decade. Lets see you want a headcase(coles) for a standup guy(C johnson) Also it tough to move two players in a trade . Name the last trade that involved two big name players moving to another team(toughy to do with cap)
91 catches for 1,100 yards would be considered prime numbers for any WR in the league. The only reason he's retiring in 2 years is because he is following Tiki Barber's lead and wants to go out on top IN HIS PRIME. He doesnt only have 2 years left in him. He could play as a solid No. 2 in this league for another 5 years but he doesnt want that. He wants to go out as a bonafide No. 1 option and without major nagging injuries the rest of his life. This is the real reason he's considering early retirement. Vilma is a proven pro Bowler. You want to give up 2 proven pro bowlers with alot of tread left on their wheels AND our #1 pick for an unproven WR? What makes Calvin Johnson any different than the numerous WR busts who have preceded him? Noone really knows the answer to that. He may pan out. Yet recent draft history says that there's a very good chance he'll never live up to his hype. Alot of pressure on his shoulders to deliver from Day 1 if the Jets make this deal.
Chad showed up as the starter in 2002 and Chrebet wound up sitting out the last 8 games of the 2003 season with post-concussion syndrome after he was laid out two games in a row in Chad's first two starts back from the first injury. At least 4 of Chrebet's 6 concussions were on throws from Chad. One in 2002, two in 2003 and one in 2004. The late concussion in 2005 from Bollinger was probably a cumulative result of the other 5. The one concussion Chrebet had in 1999 was on a throw from Rick Mirer.
Coles had a great year last year, probably he's career year. He also had at least 1 major and possibly 2 major concussions at the end of last year. Concussions are death in the NFL. I would move him right now if we could get value. Vilma was a Pro Bowler in 05, didn't deserve it he was constantly making tackles but mostly he was being run over. Last year he was average at best. He is not a pro bowl player in the 3/4 he is a top 4/3 linebacker. I think he is worth more to another team than he is to us. I don't necessarily think we should make the move for CJ. That's a front office evaluation. I would prefer to move up and grab one of the franchise QB's but that's because I don't believe in Clemens or Chad but I would be very comfortable moving both Vilma and Coles I just think they may be worth a lot more to another team than to us.
Vilma is a good playmaking MLB in a 4-3. He's not an intimidator and he doesn't clog the middle but if you put him in space with people he gets them down. I don't think there's any way that he ever becomes a Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis, Jack Lambert type MLB. He really does not have the persona to play that kind of role. Edited to get the actual middle linebacker of the Steel Curtain defenses in there. My memory is like a soggy sponge at times.
Exactly. And IT shouldnt take Vilma and Coles, it should only take Vilma and 25, to move up to 4. And in response to Raiderjoe, TB also needs a MLB for the Tampa2 they run because Shelton Quarles(sp??) is wayyyyy long in the tooth.
There is more to being an LB than just stopping the run. And w/ that said, he improved drastically in that dept. by year's end. I don't believe he'll ever be a Ray Lewis or Jack Lambert type. But what he can be is our long term emotional leader and QB on D, who brings speed, instinct, and blue chip pass coverage to the position. It is his coverage downfield that allows our D to show teams so many creative blitz packages. Mangini is from the Parcells/Bellichick school of thought when it comes to linebackers. He wants a diverse selection on the depth chart w/ varying skill sets, so that he can mix and match personell for key situations. Now in obvious, straight ahead running situations, Vilma may not be in the game... but don't you think Mangini loves having a guy around w/ Vilma's instinct, knowledge, Speed, and coverage ability, not only to mix and match w/, but also to be a team leader?
I think you're right that Vilma is exactly the kind of cerebral player that Mangini ideally would like calling the fronts for the defense. The question is, like Chad does he require so much support to fill that role in a 3-4 that he's actually a hindrance to the system? Do the Jets need a great NT and a high impact pro bowl level ILB next to Vilma to make his contributions valuable? I honestly don't know, but I'm not sure the Jets can afford a season or two to figure it out. One rebuilding cycle is all you get in the NFL these days.
no way they trade JV....just wont happen. the only place that rumor is is on the net....and the "detroit/vilma" trade has been explored to the point of redundancy here.....enough already!
You cannot say that. There IS a very good possibility, but not a likelihood, that we would trade Vilma in the right situation. Preemptively trying to say it will never happen is not going to make it true.
CJ may be great, but... I have been watching all the stuff on ESPN and the other night they did a draft special. Although Kiper and all the other "experts" rate CJ the best player in the draft, they all mentioned that... a) he has small hands for a man his size... Now maybe that matters more to his girlfriend - but he does not have big mitts to haul in passes... b) he showed lack of concentration at times at GA Tech and dropped a bunch of passes... Both of these things would worry me. Now, if I had the top pick, I'd still take him...but to trade up for him... There are a bunch of guys who compare to him from the past, who were good or evey very good players. But, look where Jerry Rice was picked. I wouldn't take that chance.
