our defense was 20th. regardless, I do agree in the later part of the year our d was more impressive. our offense boiled down to penny throwing 5-15 yd passes and Coles/Cotchery making plays afterwards. Penny showed up big in the Miami game though, aside from getting Coles murdered. oh and running, lets not ever run to the left or off tackle cuz brick cant block. only thing i admire is they called running plays after failure to at least try to keep the d from picking off more of penny's passes neither was thoroughly impressive but our D seemed to come through on 3rd down more often. sure penny converted alot of 3rd downs but when they go just past the marker and leave you out of the red zone in which you fail to score later, that is something not in the stat column. van oldhoffen was a revolving door and vilma suffered the most for it. and so did our corners. you can only cover for so long before one of the recieving options is open. no pass rush equals a poor outing for most corners. plain and simple chad is a stop gap player with potential to win a game or 2 in jan, but we need to move on next yr if not mos defnintely after that. i believe mangini will put clemens in when he is ready, he doesnt want to lose and take flack for sticking with a short armed qb past his prime. but for now the the see-saw horrid to good play of chad is what we have. he can be more effective with a running game, but then again what qb wouldnt? i still believe the key to solving our woes on offense is beefing up the OL. overall they cant run block but theyre pretty good against the pass rush. while we definitely need someone to split carries or contend with leon, the blocking isnt there. if you want some big bruiser, good luck getting through the almost non existant holes leon had to squeeze through last yr. point in case, we need to move on at QB but it could be worse while were waiting on Clemens.
Coming off of 2 rotator cuff surgeries, something no one else has ever done and playing and winning 10 games is solid if not great. You have to realize that the erratic play had to do with fatigue in his shoulder. I was at the Tennessee game and he looked great with zip on the ball. You could tell that he knew he could make certain throws toward the end of the season, but his arm wouldn't do it at times thus the inconsistency. I believe after a full offseason of being able to work on football instead of simply using his arm is going to make a hell of a difference. Most Chad haters on this board love Culpepper and he could not come back like Chad did and it had nothing to do with his throwing motion. Give him a chance. Give up on the superstar QB, it isn't going to happen. You can count them on your two hands the number of elite QB's in the history of the NFL.
I agree that Chad wore down as the year went on, however we need to realize that he threw a lot more passes this year than he had ever thrown before in the NFL. 485 throws is a load for any QB and some can hack that and some can't. If you actually look at the record of the season it's hard to divine how much Chad's arm wore down during it. He was actually throwing more passes for average results in the last quarter than he did in the middle half. My reading of it is that his arm was ok at the beginning of the season and then wore down very quickly thereafter, culminating in a crash in the Jacksonville game which also featured a very hard sack that dumped him on his right shoulder. I think Chad spent the next half dozen games recovering and learning how to cope with a sore shoulder, and his passing patterns changed a lot during that time. 9 of Chad's Ints came in that 6 game span starting at Jacksonville as he was flailing around and trying to figure out what to do next. By the final 5 games of the season he had made the adjustment and was essentially just managing the game without trying to make downfield impact. That's when the Jets, against a weak schedule, turned their season around and went to the playoffs. I like Chad a lot. I think he's a tough competitor who wins the games that are there to win. I just highly doubt that he's going to be able to lead the Jets to the top of the NFL. There are too many issues at this point between his physical condition and his psyche for one of them not to jump up and bite the Jets in the ass at the wrong time.
In what? We finished 6th in points allowed, which I specified in my post. Yes, it's a great human accomplishment. Did it help his performance? No. Was his performance up to par with what fans want in a QB? Hell no. Oh, I agree. I'm very curious as to what will happen with another season away from the surgeries. Then again, shoulder injuries are known more for their loss in velocity than anything else. Of course, thats for pitchers in baseball usually, I have no idea what long term effects it could have on Chad (or Brees actually). It's why I'm curious. WTF does this even mean? And let me guess...the "Chad haters" like Culpepper because of his stronger arm right? Cause thats all "Chad haters" want isn't it? Most people in this thread sound like they're resigned to giving him one anyway. Theres almost 0 chance of us upgrading at QB this offseason. I'm talking about the future, and Chad ain't the future. Well, first I have to ask what your criteria for an elite QB is. Mostly because I'm guessing if I ask, Super Bowl rings and team success will be part of the criteria for individual performance. Chad just isn't all that great. Certainly not as great as the "Chad lovers" make him out to be. I really want an upgrade at QB for the future. No one said finding a QB is easy, but that doesn't mean I have to settle for the QB Chad looks to be right now (mediocre is the word).
Mediocre is still better than most of the starting QB's in the league. I would love to upgrade from Chad. Much easier said than done. Until we can upgrade, settling for mediocre is still much better than a downgrade to a bad QB.
The Rhodes Scholar doesn't mean anything in football terms. What we want is football smarts. Chad isn't even really that smart though, what was his Wonderlic, like 20? Brady had at least 30, but apparently Brady isn't that smart? If you want to make comparisons for general intelligence, a source of much debate, use IQ tests such as the Wonderlic that are standardized and give you a large pool to draw from, ie, other NFL QBs. Chad the genius should be getting a 50, but he didn't. You can definitely see the football intelligence. Especially if you have HDTV or go to the games themselves. Just look at the reads and checkdowns he makes, and if you have the football knowledge, you can tell if he's making the right moves. This requires a lot more thinking than just looking at "Rhodes finalist (not winner iirc, just finalist)" but is a much better way of analyzing him. Thus far, I do not think anyone has been able to do this positively, whereas my criticisms (that he checks down too quickly etc) are never countered. But let's say I give you that Chad is the smartest and best in football smarts, if that is the case, then the guy has reached his absolute peak and we have to get rid of him. Whereas when a QB has the physical tools you can work on the mental tools to improve, it would mean Chad is in the reverse situation, and physical tools simply will not improve (indeed, they will degrade over time actually). If the only important thing was smarts, I'd throw Stephen Hawking out there as my QB, or we'd pay millions to top lawyers or scientists to be QBs. It isn't, and we don't. I've said before Chad is an okay QB, he just isn't a great one, and he will not get better either. I rank him somewhere in the top third overall, probably around 12 or so. Not bad but, let's not pretend he's an elite QB. For the record, I don't want to get rid of him, I just mentioned that in the post as a hypothetical.
I would say the offense with a brand new coordinator, two rookies on the OL and no established running game needed Chad's football smarts to get through the season. Certainly it's a team game, but on this team in this year Chad tied the whole thing together and he did it coming off an unprecedented two surgeries to his throwing shoulder. So when you get into top 10 or 15 QBs in the league, there are too many variables to come up with a clear answer or ranking. Different teams have different needs and situations in different years, and this past year Chad is the QB we needed. Probably this year coming up, too. The proof is in the results--two years he's hurt, no playoffs, three years he's in there, three playoffs. On a team that made the playoffs three times in the previous 15 seasons.
Thats very simple "proof." Using team results and saying "this guy is the reason why." I have no problem saying Chad is the best QB the Jets have right now. I just don't see his skills going foward to be whats best for the franchise in the long term.
i think it speaks for it self....its not simple, its just the way it is...when chad plays, the Jets win, when he doesnt play, we lose....and i guess its just a coincidence that the offense is inept when chad doesnt play, that must be where you base your argument so much for simple proof
I'm not saying plug him in for the next 5-10 years, but he's our best chance to win it all for right now. All these people who want to bench him for a guy who never played need some better reasons than just saying making the playoffs isn't good enough. You have to make the playoffs to even have a chance to win it all, and again it's something we did 3 times in 15 years before Chad, 3 times in 3 years with Chad. Show me who the guy is that gives us a better chance before you tell me you want to dump Chad. If the guy has never played a game (Clemens) you have no basis for your argument. Praise Denver all you want, they missed the playoffs. So the guy got 4-5 games more experience than if they put him in in camp, good for them.
I don't have the chance to go to games and I don't have HD so I can't really comment on any of your comments. I just think there is definitly a reason that he is regarded as a "smart" QB. This information comes from people who are aorund him everyday and have the chance to talk to him. I don't have the chance to do this so I must rely on their opinions. I actually completely agree with your third paragraph. I don't believe that Chad is an elite QB. But I do believe that he is good enough to win us a championship if we put the right tools around him. I would say he ranks about 10-12 too but I do believe that he could get better over this offseason. He is coming off two rough years with shoulder surguries and this offseason might be what he needs to gain some more arm strength back. He will have more time to do that kind of strengthening than having to spend all his time rehabbing.
Denver missed the playoffs because their super bowl winning coach knew they could not go far with Plummer even if they made the playoffs. They gave the kid some experience and they will be much better next year for it. He planned for the future as opposed to getting a quick one and done playoff exit this year. When all is said and done they get a better pick than us in the upcoming draft. Im not saying the Jets should have done that this year because Chad deserved to play it out but next year I would not be opposed to seeing what Clemens has to offer as opposed to another one and done playoff berth with Chad. Chad is a one game maybe two and done playoff Qb. He will never beat the elite teams in the later rounds of the playoffs and it is time to move on. I would rather get a young guy that can come in and grow with a young team now as opposed to throw him in when the rest of the team is superbowl ready and we have to bench him like Denver did with Plummer. People keep saying Chad gives us the best chance to win. My answer is the best chance to win what? Certainly not a superbowl. That is the only win that counts not first or second round playoff berths.
Cutler showed something in practice, apparently KC hasn't. Broncos players reportedly were asking Shanahan why Cutler wasn't starting, nobody does that for KC. I don't even know why we drafted KC, but apparently the CS sees something in him, and when they see enough, they'll start him. Until then, it seems clear to me Chad is the better option. As for your other point, people said the same thing about Peyton Manning, we saw how that turned out didn't we? It's not like Peyton was even great in the playoffs this year for the most part. I wanted Chad out a few months ago myself, but honestly, watching the general level of QB play in the league now, Chad really isn't THAT bad. You saw what Trent Green did against the Colts? You saw Peyton's performances in the playoffs, outside of like one half against the Pats. You saw Palmer's bungling. You saw Brady blow games. I mean really...
Its very hard to disagree with that. With that defense, running game, and Chad making very few mistakes. It would be hard to beat them.
How good was the running game and just how dominant was the defense? Neither was responsible for this team going 10-6! The defense played well the 2nd half, yes, but to say they were responsible for a complete turnaraoud! Please, get real!!!
It is actually very easy to disagree with that comment. To have that kind of runnning game and defense you wouldn't be able to afford a QB like Chad. He is paid like a top 5 QB put performs like a middle tier QB. That is one of my biggest beefs with him. He eats up the salary cap space of a QB that should be able to put an offense on his shoulders and will them to a win but almost everyone will agree that he is not a QB of that caliber.
Are you going to even Chad Pennington in the same breath as Peyton Manning? The level of Qb play in the league is not good. Now look at the top Qb's that Chad has to compete against this year and the immediate future and you tell me where he falls. He nowhere close to Manning, Brady or Palmer. He is not better than Rivers, Rothlisberger or Mcnair and it is safe to say that Vince Young and Jay Cutler will be added to the list this season as well. These are just the Qb's in the Afc. Are you telling me you would rather have Chad than any of these other Qb's?
in reply Dang, I hate coming to an arguement post late... but here goes Russ Reign: "I hate Justin Miller too because he's a piece of dirt off the field" Well, what is that based on? I'm a bit of a homer here about him (and by the way, we have the same last name but if you saw us you'd never ask if we were related :wink: ), but when I met him he was really down to earth, nice, represented his home state when Kentucky isn't that fashionable (he has a necklace in the shape of Kentucky with a nice diamond where his hometown is), and donated quite a bit of money to a boys and girls club in the ghetto that doesn't get treated the same as the other ones by his hometown (that place was a dump, but thanks to his contributions--contributions from his rookie contract, not the later contracts when the cash goes up-- those kids are getting a much nicer place to play. I even know some of his teachers from his high school and they have nice things to say about him. So what exactly, are you saying makes him "a piece of dirt"? One party in college that got the cops called to it would make a lot of us (and a lot more of the NFL) pieces of dirt by your standards.
Oh, and back on topic, here's the teams I think that would trade (if not their starter then a nice package) for CP: Lions, Bears (to compete at least and probably start), Vikings, and Packers (to be the transition guy from Farve to Rogers next year) --that's an entire division. The Browns, Ravens (maybe, maybe not... might come down to what type of incentives McNair has on his contract), Bills (J.P.L. has his ups and downs but should be a sure fire starter by now and isn't), Dolphins, Buccs, Cardinals, 49ers, Raiders, Redskins, and Giants (if their QB's last name was smith instead of Manning). That's 12 outright would trade their starters, 1 that would bring him in to compete (Bears) and one that would bring him in for next year or so (the Packers). That's my two cents.
