This sounds a lot more accurate. Let's see, we got a first rounder that was four picks lower than 25 last year for an All-Pro end, then drafted a potential future All-Pro center with that pick. What has Turner done to justify that type of value? I like him, but I'd rather have a couple of SD's linemen to be honest.
Now we need a list of all those players that were first round tendered and signed by another team in exchange for a 1st round pick of 25 to 32, if we want a truly apples to apples comparison. I'm too lazy to do it, mind you, but I felt it was my TGG.com responsibility to float the idea...
It isn't so much a matter of over rating the 25th pick in my opinion, it's more a question of how to rebuild, and specifically how to build a good running game for the offense. Turner has looked very good, but behind an even better run blocking offensive line. Granted, with a baseline of much less playing time and carries, Jesse Chatman actually put up better numbers than Turner as Tomlinson's backup a couple years ago, with a lofty 6.0 yards per carry. A RB's performance doesn't always translate to the same sort of success behind an offensive line that can't run block very well. Edgerin James' numbers fell off the cliff running behind a bad Arizona O line. Lamont Jordan's success behind a decent Jets O line didn't remain the same either. With the loss of the best OG in football, S Alexander's numbers took a big hit as well. Pittsburgh's offensive line can control the line of scrimmage and punish the defense.... and an undrafted RB like Willie Parker looks pretty good running behind it. Ronnie Brown, Caddy Williams, both good RB's that don't perform very well behind bad run blocking O lines, while latter round picks like Jones-Drew and Norwood have lit some games up, but because they could get through the line of scrimmage on occassion without being hit. Addai's success is pretty close to what Edge did in Indy (yes, the Indy o line is not great at run blocking, but with so many weapons, the defense and safeties play back). So, rather than look for an RB that might be an improvement, I'd rather use the draft to get some O linemen that can run block instead. As of now, we don't have a RT. Adrian Jones again? Hope a player Like Blanton can step up? Resign Clement? Giving up a pick means we have one less opportunity to upgrade other positions that we need considerabley more, like a DE (or NT moving DRob outside) not one but two O linemen (even if you like Moore, which I don't, Kendall is getting old) a CB and a WR that has to be ready to start by 2008. I think going RB, Turner or otherwise is a band aid on a shotgun wound. It doesn't address the real problem, building an O line that can open holes and move the pile. Given the other holes this team has, it makes even less sense. Is the possible upgrade Turner might bring at RB make the team better than using that pick for a 3-4 DE that can (hopefully) start this year? Or a RT that can open some running lanes for the RB's we have now?
This is the problem with the poster awards. Now you feel you have to make these grandious statements that are all fluff and no substance. TEEHEE.
... So basically after reading your post you're saying that the Jets should trade their 1st for Turner because your opinion is more valid than anyone that thinks differently.
I agree with what ThunderbirdJet just posted but I also have questions about the logic of giving a #1 Draft pick to a team that was one game away from the Superbowl and, that plays in our Conference. Why should we be the ones that make them stronger? If this draft is as deep as people say, maybe we should trade DOWN and stockpile more mid-range picks if the player that we want isn't there. Also, one other thought. If he REALLY is as good as some people claim, why will his tender be for ONLY a first round pick?
I think that's a valid point, but if S Alexander wasn't tradable for a 2nd, is Turner worth a one? The arguement being SA wanted big bucks, but so will Turner. Turner essentially can't be traded without his permission. He will have to have a negotiated contract in place with whatever team is willing to trade for him. No team will give up a first for Turner to rent him for one year. Turner could decide to wait until next year, when he's a unrestricted FA. Then he can go to the highest bidder, and the team of his choice. There would be more teams interested in him if they don't have to surrender draft picks. I'd love Turner as a UFA. I just don't like the idea of paying too much for him, and his contract demands are going to be high..... throw in a one for him too? That's too much.
Yep, I utter nonsense all the time.... never made a sensible point ever in my life. Good call. jetnation.com... POTW =post of the week.
Why is everyone on this thread mentioning getting Mangold etc. You trade #25 but YOU GET TURNER,,,, he,, for all practical purposes, BECOMES THE 25TH PICK which is dynamite.
The issue is not that some of us are overating the 25th pick, it's that we believe that Turner is overrated or at least unproven. More importantly, many of us believe that there is more value in using the first round pick to fill another need - DL or OL and that getting an every down back is overrated. Given what the market has been for proven running backs in the past, giving a first round pick for an unproven back up is just not worth it. I don't want to make a Raider/Lamont Jordan mistake and give up a first rounder and a ton of cash for someone who may not be as good as appears. It is far more important to improve the right side of the OL. Then any RB can be effective. Remember, none of the top ten rushers in the NFL this year made it past the second round of the playoffs. I thought the goal was to win a Super Bowl and not just make the playoffs. Look at the best running backs in NFL history and tell me how many championships they won. Brown won 1 Payton won 1 and it was because of the Bears defense LT - none Sanders - none Simpson - none The only top rusher to win multiple championships was Smith, and he played behind one of the best OLs in history and had a HOF QB and WR on that offense (Irvin will make the HOF).
And probably most importantly there is only a chance that Turner is actually going to be a good back when he finally gets his 300 carries. Most runningbacks fail that test regardless of how good they looked beforehand.
Stop drinking the Turner Kool-aid! Nick Mangold was taken with our pick at # 29 last year. Every year there are players taken in the second round and later that turn into stars. Draft picks are much more valuable than a backup RB with seven career receptions.
I don't disagree BUT every year there are guys taken in the bottom of the 1st round that do squat and are busts too. I think you have to ask yourself this question... If Turner was in the draft, would he go 25th? Probably, but he's going to get top 6-8 money..... You probably can draft a RB with the same, or similar quality, at 25, and it would cost a lot less. The risk is a little greater.. It really is a tough call in my mind... I woudln't be terribly upset either way.
That's the real crux of the issue, which I guess is why there is so much debate. I for one would be upset if we gave up our first for him. Our late 2nd I could swallow, but that's JMHO....
your comparing apples to oranges. last years draft class was exponentially deeper. you had 1st rd talent lasting till about the 3rd rd. this year, 1st rd talent drops off at about the 20 or 25. youll have 2nd rd talent lasting from late 1st to the 3rd.
