Update on Michael Turner

1. The lack of receptions argument is an argument based purely on speculation. Scouting reports and college stats both say that maybe the Chargers just don't feel like he absolutely NEEDS to catch the ball when he gets in.

2. Now that we've established that "not able to recieve" thing is little more than speculation, we get to his running style. What the Turner detractors seem to miss with Turner is the size, speed, and explosiveness are all there. The only argument is that he's "not proven." Unfortunately, thats true of every player ever at their position. Watching Turner, it's fairly obvious the guy is either a. bound to be the best backup in the league again or b. a future starter for someone without an LT in the backfield.

3. The most ridiculous argument of all is "he's a 5th rounder." Curtis Martin was a 3rd, Terrell Davis was a 6th, Priest Holmes was undrafted, and I could go on for a while.

4. The only legit argument is the price of Turner. Would I give up a first? Yes actually. To me he looks like the real deal. He runs hard. He has the size. He has the speed to take it outside. He has the power to take it inside. He's a big play guy. He refuses to go down on the first or even second hit.

Of course, I'd like to see us build up a line for him to run behind. That should be fun enough though. We're set at the two most important positions, and the draft has quite a few nice guard and tackle prospects this year. Even better is that you can usually draft linemen late and still find good ones.

Turner + big oline prospects from draft = running game set for long time. I see no one but Marshawn Lynch coming close to his upside. Turner is only 25, and unlike Lynch has played in the NFL and trained in the NFL for 3 years.

 

The argument i made on about 30 other threads. Cause this subject has now been beaten to death more than any other of late. The price for Turner (a day one pick) IMHO is higher than I think he's worth given he's a RB (a position that's tradationally easier to fill) and he's 4 years older than any back in draft. Knowing that his ability to succeed is about as assured as any draft pick, I believe a draft pick would cost less contractually and run the same risk/reward for success...

 

Haven't established that at all at this point.

If Turner had hands he definitely would have had more opportunity to show them off over the last couple of seasons. The SD offense features a lot of passes to the backs. The fact that he has not gotten many balls thrown his way means that SD doesn't think he's worth throwing to.

 

Your kidding right?!?!?! Throw to the back up... Since when? Epecially when your starter is LT... You know the back-ups role when LT is the starter, every 5th and 6th play either block, or run the ball and make sure you don't fumble.

Are you sure you WATCH football?

Ellis

 

I know like...nothing about NFL contracts.

But as far as risk/reward: the newly drafted guy is far riskier.

Turner has been in the NFL for three years. He has NFL size. He has NFL experience. He has had NFL training.

The drafted back? None of those.

Plus, we run the risk of getting a less talented back than Turner. Besides for Peterson and Lynch, who else has Turners talent? Possibly Tony Hunt, but Penn State RBs have a tradition of busting, and 6'2 RBs scare me. Yes, I know Hunt carries that size very well, and yes I know LJ went to Penn State. Possibly Kolby Smith, but he has never carried a college load.

Out of those guys listed, who has done what Turner has done at the NFL level? How great of a shot do we have any of them but Hunt/Smith?

Anyway, I'm working with the idea that Lynch hasn't fallen hard because of the BS sexual assualt charges. Peterson just isn't happening. Both should be long gone. After that I only like 2 guys and I see 3 choices:

Turner
Smith
Hunt

Of them Turner has the most proven, and can be argued to have the most physical talent.

There are more important needs than RB for this team like the lines and I'd personally like a pass rushing OLB. Still, a young talent like Turner being available is very intriguing. I trust our staff to make the right call, but right now I think Turner is becoming highly underrated on most boards. The thing that annoys me is that the only real problem is price, all the others are things that can be said about many great players pre-greatness, and usually any player ever. Considering the Turner to Jets rumor started popping up right around the time we hired Schott, I think the Jets see him quite highly too.

 

Thank You... thank you very very much

Ellis

 

Your points are well taken, and not to speak (post) for the sake of it. But with those positives you listed about Mr. Turner, there is a higher $$ contract that goes with it. So not only the risk lessened but the price is increased (this takes into account his salary, the value of the pick(s) to get him and his bonus). Now mind you, those cost aren't the same for a rook (cheaper money, 1 pick vs. the possiblity of multiple) but the potential for success isn't as high.

Now here's the killer part - we know about as much about Turners ability to carry the load as we do a rookie, and the price for Turners failure here is much higher based on the above than a rook and more importantly the rest of our draft will be effected no matter what turner's success...thats why I think it makes more sense to go with a rook day one over turner who may cost multiple picks....

 

To be honest, I think WE as an organization know more than you'd like to give credit for, having Shotty as our OC. The scary part you talk about is from a fans point of view, because he's not the sexy glamorous pick everyone is dreaming of.

Ellis

 

Not to mention that I agree with whoever stated earlier, that this drafts stock of talent at RB is WEAK at best, outside of Peterson, Lachay, and possibly Bush, if he can stay healthy. Not even close to the talent in last years draft class, thus, making Turner the best option for RB, especially since we are in the bottom of the first round, and won't be able to touch a top 3 RB.

It just makes sense...

Ellis

 

Exactly.

The Jets are far more informed than us, and like I said before...the intense interest in Turner since Schotty came here says alot to me.

 

Yeah I watch football. If Turner had the skillset to catch the ball out of the backfield they'd throw it to him. Look at the other guys in his position in recent history. Lamont Jordan got the ball thrown to him on a regular basis when he was Curtis Martin's backup. Larry Johnson got the ball thrown to him when he backed up Priest Holmes. Steven Jackson backing up Marshall Faulk? Yup they threw him the ball now and then.

Who is the odd man out in this picture? Michael Turner who has caught 7 balls for the 157 times he rushed the ball so far in his career. That 22 to 1 ratio has gotta be the worst in recent NFL history for ANY runningback.

If you want to argue the point then go find the examples that back up your contention that any NFL team is going to have a runningback that just runs the ball when he comes in to give the starter a breather. I couldn't find those guys. Well, except for Turner.

 

I've noticed you've completely ignored any and all rebuttals to your post, and just kept posting the same thing over and over.

Just because he hasn't had the ball thrown to him doesn't mean he can't get it done.

 

Quoting absurd stats for a back up to LT is not proving anything. If he were getting the amount of carries that Lamont got while here, you might have a point in an argument that at the moment is pointless. The fact still remains that if the Chargers are going to throw the ball to a back, it's going to be LT and not Turner. The proof of that, as they say, is in the puddin'. It's got nothing to do with Turner's ability to catch.

Some reasons:
Like I stated above:
1) If the Chargers are going to throw the ball to a back, it's going to be LT.
2) You don't throw the damn ball, EVEN TO A BACK if you are winning, and sitting down your STAR RB
3) Mop up duty does not often include throwing the ball
4) His main roll, give LT a break, and not fumble or cause a turnover. The safest way to avoid a turnover, HAND OFF THE BALL. Hense, you don't throw the damn ball to a back.

Common dude... common sense

Coach Ellis
"Poppin cherries worldwide since god knows when"

 

No one is going to give a 1st for him. It took the # 29 last year to take John Abraham. It will be a 2nd rounder in the end

 

I haven't ignored the rebuttals, I've just responded to the ones where facts were what were questioned.

Michael Turner has caught an extraordinarily low number of balls in his NFL career. At this point it's up to those who think he *can* catch the ball to prove it. Go find some other runningback who had a similarly low number of catches at this point in his career and show where he blossomed into a back who could catch the ball. I couldn't find that guy, let alone enough of them to think it's likely to happen to Turner.

The guy has great speed and size and does very well in the open field. Do you really think that a coach as good as Marty Schottenheimer and an offensive coordinator who loves throwing the ball to backs like Cam Cameron wouldn't have been throwing him the ball if they thought it would get him loose in the secondary? Obviously they didn't.

 

All I'm going to say in response to the "facts" above is that Turner was not a 4th quarter sitting on a lead backup. He gets used to give LT a breather when he needs it and that invalidates most of what you just posted.

 

Hey, thanx for trying to skew the argument your way and twisting words... should have expected this from the BIHW, CHUMP faction of the board.

anyway... If you READ THE ENTIRE POST, or watch football and have some knowledge of the game, you would know that he's the back up, and very few back ups get the ball thrown to them on a consistent basis. The biggest reason is timing with the QB and the fact that most of the reps for passes go to the FIRST team back. That being said, I never said Turner was exclusively a mop up back. I did, in fact, state in more than one post, that his roll was to give LT, you know the MVP of the league, a breather in the game.

Now, you so graciously posted that Turner has a mere 157 Carries and 7 catches in his 3 years. That simply does not give you very much opportunity to get the ball thrown to you, now does it... Especially when you do the math, and figure out that that equals exactly 164 touches. Now when you break that down by a 16 game season, that means he's average just about 3.41 touches per game, including catches... Thats not very many opportunities, for a man who backs up the best back in the league. I, as a good coach would make damn sure I'm not throwing the ball to guy very often, especially when his touches are limited to 3 per game. Now an NFL coach would make sure that he has a similar philosophy I would hope.

But somehow, everyone in the league has stood up and taken notice of what he has done in his limited touches... But all you know is... HE CAN'T CATCH!!!


Stop being ignorant and arguing for the sake of argument

Coach Ellis
" Leader of the New Skool "

 

I think "he can't catch" is possibly a stretch, and I know I said it first. "He hasn't proven he can catch" may be fairer on the guy. As for:

Given that we're told he once caught four passes in one game, which of the FOUR games in three years is it you think we should watch to see that he can catch? I could watch 44 hours of Chargers football played since Turner was drafted and not see him catch a single ball.

How do we KNOW he poses a threat as a receiver? To what extent are we prepared to gamble that maybe, just maybe, the reason that San Diego never throw him the ball is because they don't trust him to catch it? Is it worth using a first round pick just to see? If he had great hands or even decent hands would they not try to get him involved in catching the ball, even as nothing more than an occasional variation on his general involvement to stop the defense knowing what he's there for when he's in??

I'm not saying don't go get him, I'm saying I'm concerned and I'd hate to lose our top pick without something more to go on.