But when you compare the best teams to us there is a Huge Dropoff at the QB position. Even as bad as Grossman is he can at least stretch the defense. With Chad we loose half the playbook against Super Bowl Caliber teams. He has gotten us to the playoffs and flopped every time. Our goal should be to win a superbowl not just get there. I like chad but the unfortunate truth is he has proven time and time again he can not get the job done.
So you would take Grossman over Pennington? Good luck with that. There are times he can't even get a first down. I don't see how Chad "flops" in the playoffs, he's 2-3. Considering 4 of the 5 have been on the road and all of the losses competitive for at least most of the game, I don't see how you can say that. This notion of "stretching the defense" is getting out of hand, too. If you notice, Chad goes deep a couple times a game, maybe less often than other QBs but it's more effective because nobody is expecting it. The Miami game, for example, in the rain and wind. Just as the MNF crew is droning on about how he can't go deep, he hits Cotchery deep over the middle for a TD. Did the same thing in the NE playoff game, did the same thing in the SD playoff game. He does it all the time if you watch the games. He's not a mad bomber, but he recognizes when the defense decides he can't throw long and then he burns them. When you think about it, who actually does make a living throwing deep all the time? That's pretty low percentage and you don't move the chains if all you do is throw deep.
There is another kind of "stretching" the defense that Penny is pretty incapable of doing. It's the mid range dart. The 15 yd routes. He can hit a 15 yd curl because his timing is so good. But the 15 yd in/out/post routes are all eliminated from the Jets playbook. The only reason our recievers even run those routes is to clear out for the underneath recievers. When you can't complete these passes - the safties cheat up and the LB's play the underneath routes more aggressively. This is the more important limitation that Chad's arm strength puts on our offense.
Then how did a new coaching staff, and seemingly a good one, pick him to run their offense out of four guys? Either those plays aren't in the offense or he throws them well enough to win the job and go to the playoffs.
isnt it funny how your wrong. Manning- 31td's 9 INTs Brady- 24 td's 12 INTS Penny- 17 td's 16 INTS isnt it funny that penny's passes probably seem more accurate because he cant get the ball there in time so defenders are draped around our WR's when the catch is brought in
The coaching staff was forced to make a decision - and the one they did got them to the playoffs. Like everything in else there was a tradeoff involved with that decision. In hindsight - I think they did the right thing as making the playoffs was a huge boost to the organization as a whole. As for the comment of yours that I bolded: 1. We know those plays are in the offense. My original post said as much and what their main purpose serves. Remembering the Miami game you brought up - the one time that Chad threw one of those routes it damn near got Coles killed. 2. We also know that the way Chad throws those routes has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with why Chad won the job. He won the job because of his strengths - smart accurate passer with experience. His weaknesses are part of the tradeoff in starting him. I am willing to agree with you that Chad gives us the best chance to win right now(definition of win being number of games - not going deep in postseason). I think you are being stubborn if you fail to agree with me that his limitations include the inability to throw the 15 yd routes with consistant success.
Has anyone!?!.....anyone!!???!! mentioned that Pennington is taking Karate lessons? Thank you, I'm done here. Mod, let's get a lock on this one, round em' fellas we're outta here.
Whatever, lets cut Chad and get a guy who can throw the ball a quarter mile Uncle Rico would sure look good in green and white
I guess what I'm disagreeing with you on is not whether can he throw those routes but how big of a deal is that? There is going to be something almost any QB can't do, whether it's read a defense, identify a blitz, pick the right guy to throw to, run for a first down, whatever. So Chad can't laser a ball in there on a 15 yard curl, so what? If it limits the offense then how did we win 10 games? Browning Nagle could laser the ball in there but he couldn't ever figure out which receiver to throw to. Ken O'Brien could throw a 60 yard route on a rope but he couldn't get out of his own way. Like you said, everything is a trade-off. We get rid of Chad the next guy will have a million dollar arm and a 10 cent head.
If Uncle Rico can beat the Patriots, colts, chargers and steelers when it matters then sign and suit him up.
Winning right now is the only and right point. Who cares if we go 10-6 every year and not have a real chance of winning. The reality of it Chad does not give the Jets a punchers chance of winning. He is just there and as long as he is we will have to assemble a Defense like the Ravens or Bears that can take us to the promised land. Does it really matter if we continue to get to the playoffs and never win or at least advance to the Title game.
In any sport a team can do it with smoke and mirrors to get to the playoffs. We won ten games with a creampuff schedule. The problem is when you play the elite teams those defiencies will not fly. If you belive in Mangini you will believe he can get someone in there who can think and also throw and run the offense. Do you really think that we can compete with the elite teams in the Nfl?
Most of you forget some things here, QB might be the most important position in football or close to it, is the guy who touches the ball on almost every play but, do you really think that a QB with a laser, rocket arm is the solution to everything? I really don't. Brady might have a rocket arm or whatever but the Pats team who won all those championships are really made of good players on all sides of the ball, you can point a lot of players even the kicker, you had a team with a winning QB but with an outstanding defense that gave him the ball back and that's what he needed, why would I have a super QB if I can't give him the ball easily or normally? Manning might have the best arm in the NFL but it took him all this time to get to the next level while some QB's who are not so good as him have made it, heck and even won like Dilfer with the Ravens, and we even had a great team in 2004 who might have made it all the way with Chad at QB, but came short because of what, Kicker, not QB. I do think we can make it to the next level with him, why not if Dilfer made it? and through history there are others like Dilfer, let's remember that Chad has a lot of heart and even when everyone doubted him, he made it this far, give him a better running game and for God's sake give him a better running defense to give him the ball more, a better O-line and different options at receivers.
I don't think the argument is that we need someone with a "laser rocket arm". Rather we need someone who at least has an average arm. Cad does not have that. He has GREAT intangibles, and he overachieves, but when he overachieves he winds up being average overall. Are we that happy with an AVERAGE QB, or should we be looking at upgrading the position and making it a strength? That's the question. FWIW, the 2002 Chad had a much better arm than what Chad had this year, but just like it is hard to notice a receeding hairline, we have not noticed how much weaker his arm is. The 2002 Chad was good at the mid-range throw which is what Chad is really struggling with this year.
No one is blaming Chad for loosing againts the Pats. But lets be honest, if we are down t TDs and its the 4th qtr. We have no shot. With Brady and Manning you always know you are still in the game. I have about 10 posts on this and I just for the life of me don't get the Chad camp. If your satasfied making the fist or 2nd round of the playoffs than stay with Chad; I'm looking for potential and the ability to strike fear in the other teams defense. Chad does not do that. As for his stats, please they were medling at best. 17 tds, 17 interceptions. And don't bring up the running game. You could bring LT in here and he couldn't run with 8 in the box. Guys like Samuels salavate over a guy like Chad. In fact, Mangini gave Chad the "book" the patriots had on him and to say the least it wasn't flattering. Open up camp to a fair competition between clemens and chad and let chips fall where the may. I tell you one thing, denver had a better team and they made the QB switch in the middle of a playoff hunt, that showed balls. I have been suffering Jets fan since Namath and am tired of a good season and a couple of rounds to the playoffs, enough said.
Um, yes he could. He did it for 3 seasons, but thats before the media and casual fan "discovered" him.
You can maybe do it once with smoke and mirrors and luck, but Chad is now 3 for 3 in getting us to the playoffs. Once may be luck, twice a coincidence, but three times in three healthy season? This is what I mean by giving credit where it is due. Regarding your question of can we beat top teams with Chad, of course we can. We won at New England this year with Chad at QB, he had us in postiion to beat a 15-1 #1 seed Steelers if we had a kicker that can kick like Brady and New England had. We won at San Diego in the playoffs with Chad playing with his shoulder needing surgery. This will be the first off-season since 2003-04 that he won't be rehabbing his throwing shoulder from a major surgery. He just led the team back to the playoffs against all odds as it is, let's see what happens before everyone wants to cut him loose.
I agree with you 100%. People fail to see what it does to an offense when they have to go against a team with 8 in the box. The running game will never develop no matter who is behind center. The sad thing is when we get behind the game is all but over. I just don't know what Chad supporters are looking at. There is no honor in going to the first round of the playoffs and loosing to anybody. I want to go all the way and I get sick of people talking about how we made it to the playoffs.
