I don't agree with the last paragraph regarding Wilson because as I've said many times before, their complete screw up with him in so many ways makes it impossible to to conclude that he wouldn't have been okay with good coaching and talent around him. This is true for what happened to Darnold as well. But your point about them not embracing analytics and data is valid.
The Jets embrace data, just not the kind we want them to. They see ticket sales and merchandise sales soaring, as they always do, and this leads them to not give a crap about what actually happens between the white lines on the artificial surface they call a football field. If somehow their bottom line was disrupted, you'd see them react at a speed that would shatter the sound barrier to correct things.
Disclaimer: No offense meant to OP and not meant to derail . . . Without reading anything in this thread, I have a new philosophy for the Jets: eat shit. I could go on a manic ramble from here to Mars and back about why, but I need more brevity in my life. As you were.
We definitely didn't make life easy for Wilson. I still remember him getting lit up during his first handful of games with us because the OL was so bad. But the thing is, lots of highly drafted young QBs play behind bad OLs. Most of them, even. That's why we should've trusted the numbers and cut bait with him. Thinking we put him in a uniquely bad position as a young QB is just another way of saying we ignored the data. The data is full of young QBs who had bad weapons and lines, and it still says what it does.
Sounds about right. Hard to imagine, “professionals” wouldn’t know that the oline was more important than any of it on offense. But here we are. I’m still going to hold on to a little hope for 24, because it’s still Rodgers. And he risks putting a serious dent in how his legacy looks if he doesn’t do something here. But hopefully they know they need to go all out surrounding him .
I wouldn’t put it past this organization to be that short sighted, that’s for sure. But I’m hoping they were trying to jumpstart something. I guess we will find out in 24. Because if this season fails , it won’t be just a black Monday around here… it may be the worst one we’ve all ever seen.
You know, I think a bunch of us (myself included) saw big fat ex-OL Joe Douglas and immediately thought OL Guru! I know that I definitely didn't think that one through. Since he took over, the results have been the furthest thing from that idea. He did find a very good guard in AVT (through a costly trade-up) but through misnanagement of almost every other position on the line, has managed to take that guard out of position to succeed and the guy has had season ending soft tissue injuries both times. Somehow fans think it's a good idea to keep doing this. Maybe this year we will see Joe Douglas actually trade back and treat his draft capital with value. I don't expect it. It doesn't matter how well you draft every other position on offense if you don't protect the QB. Ask Andrew Luck.
I couldn't agree more - this kind of "culture/vision" stuff just doesn't apply to organisations where success or failure ultimately comes down to 1 or 2 individuals and it basically doesn't matter if they buy into the philosophy or not. As you have said about Purdy, the winningest team in decades was the Patriots because they fluked into Tom Brady who then carried the team. If their success was down to their culture/philosophy then why did they fall off a cliff the second he left? If you look at the teams in the playoffs - all of them have good QBs, that is basically the deciding factor and a really good QB can make an average o-line look great (the falcons and colts had the 2nd and 3rd highest ranked lines but were awful as they don't have QBs). The only philosophy a team needs to enjoy consistent success is: find a good QB to build around get a reasonable set of receivers and o-line have a reasonable defense have decent playcalling Unfortunately that first point is essentially down to luck - either get lucky with someone drafted late or be lucky to be really bad at the right time and it doesn't matter if you have the greatest culture in the world you aren't going to turn a mediocre QB into a good one - the Steelers have a fantastic culture/vision but struggled this year (before an improbable playoff run) because they dont have a good QB - almost nothing else has changed but that's all it takes to take one of the most solid teams in the NFL into crisis with fans calling for them to clean house (until that late run saved them). The reason the Jets are failing looking at my "recipe for success" above is they only tick 1 of 4 boxes (having a decent defense - unfortunately even there they have failed as they have invested so much into having a great defense that they have made point 2 really difficult to achieve and they have no luck so the first point will always evade them).
This whole philosophy theory in my mind boils down to two things. Tom Brady said it best. A CS that is talented enough that Monday thru Saturday puts the player in the best position to win with proper development, training and game planning. And on Sunday, players that are talented enough to be able to execute the plan as expected. Great players with shitty coaches give similar poor results as great coaches with shitty players. You need both.
you don’t need both this day and age maybe to win 6 SBs like Brady’s patriots you do, sure. But not to win a division title or even make a run at a SB in a given year in this watered down league do the Houston Texans have great players and great coaches? I don’t think so. I think they have lots of weaknesses. They play Saturday for a spot in the AFC Championship
Well put! But I think in order to find those great coaches and players you need to have some kind of blueprint you're using. After all, a coach or player may be great/fail on one team, but do better/worse on another. To put it another way: the "West Coast Offense" is widely considered a great offense, but not all coaches can coach it well and not all players fit into equally well. But of your team says "We're going to us the WCO", and then goes out and hires coaches that don't really know how to use it, or use it well, and acquire players who don't really fit that system, and you make no adjustments, you're not going to succeed. This is where the Jets have failed IMO.
The Jets have an organizational problem where they view offense as like a crutch/detriment/hindrance. They view offense as a way to lose the game rather than go out and win the game. That style of football is so gone and we are stuck with this philosophy from 20 years ago. Until they realize that offense should be used to win a game rather than view it as a way to lose it, we won't win shit.
See my recipe for success: find a good QB to build around - check get a reasonable set of receivers and o-line - check have a reasonable defense - check (middle of the pack) have decent playcalling - check
Just to reinforce the defense vs offense point: 14 teams go into the NFL playoffs - defense - of the top 14 ranked defenses about half the teams are in the playoffs and half the teams are not in the playoffs (the eagles had the 26th ranked defense!) - offense - of the top 14 ranked offenses - 13 of them are in the playoffs - the only highly ranked offense not to make the playoffs was the Seahawks at 12 - the only team out of the top 14 was the Steelers who most people would agree were really lucky to make the playoffs. in short - if you have a top half of the table offense you are almost certain to make the playoffs - if you have a top half of the table defense then its up for grabs.
And it's been like this for much of the last 10 years. I've done this same exercise after most recent seasons and it usually resembles this distribution. Blows my mind that we can't realize that offense is far more important than defense.
Really? Drafted oline with first round pick acouple of years. Drafted receivers and runners with high picks. Drafted qb with first round pick a couple of years. Got HOF qb last year. Yet you think we ignore offense?
100% This is SUPER telling, and for all the analytics and shit, THIS should be the main thing to look at. The league is catering to offense…they WANT to see lots of yards, especially passing yards, lots of TDs, and big splash plays. The rules are extremely tilted to support this, most notably with the strong Roughing the Passer, DPI, and Defensive Holding calls that are ticky tack and skewed/subjective as often as not. ESPECIALLY if you have a top tier QB…no one wants to see them hurt. So offense should be the TOP focus for every team…kind of crazy that we still cling to the “keep it close into the 4th quarter” and tough D mentality. It’s a losing battle. The ONLY way to win that way is to have a generational defense like the early 2000 Ravens or the later Bucs. That’s it. Two teams have done it. Crazy
