I’m on this boat pretty much as well… I ABSOLUTELY hate the consistency for consistency’s sake argument and I agree with you…we haven’t been terrible because we don’t give GMs and coaches enough time…we’ve been terrible because we’ve hired consistently bad to terrible GMs and HCs and if anything, we’ve waited TOO long to make changes sometimes. None of Bradway, Idzik or Mac have had success at all after we fired them, and I think they are all out of the NFL either for good or soon thereafter. They’ve all been terrible…giving them more time would not have yielded better results. Same for our HCs…none of them…Bowles, Gase, Rex, Mangini, whomever…a couple got a second chance but none have been any good. So back to JD…I’ve really been a JD supporter, and I’m not really yet on the JD Must Go wagon. At least not yet. Maybe it’s shell shock from the other absolute dogshit GMs we’ve had so that I have like zero confidence that Woody would find someone better, or maybe it’s just that I don’t think he’s utterly failed. Hard to keep saying that seeing our record and the ever continuing “rebuild” and seeing the absolute trash that is our offense. Some of it is injuries sure. And a huge part is if we did have AR, we’d have a few more wins and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But then shoulda woulda coulda though…I totally get the “well he should have considered injury risk on our often injured OL and a 40 year old QB”…true enough. To me, the most damning thing on JD is that after 4 years, our OL is STILL shit. Injuries sure but sooner or later you can’t keep hiding behind that…every team has injuries. And of course the QB. To me, the failure to do anything this offseason and even more so once AR got hurt is way worse than his decision to draft Zach in the first place…he’s not the first QB to bust, and while I didn’t like the background there with small school shit competition and covid, I at least understand the logic in going for a potential QB. In hindsight it would have been way better to keep Darnold and trade that pick for a bounty, and several on here were saying so at the time, but in the end I can understand the decision. What I can not abide is that after 2 years of watching him bust, that we STILL stayed put with Zach. So while I’m not yet on the fire JD wagon, I can say that I’m less fullly behind him than I was…primarily for the continued failure to fix the OL after 4 offseasons and the decision to stand pat with Zach. Between those two, I can understand making a change there even though I’m not sure that’s what I’d do quite yet.
Cleveland does not have less talent. They’ve amassed a ton of talent on both sides of the ball and drafted very well. I guess if you go position by position you can maybe argue here or there but they pay Mahomes a billion dollars to cover the holes and they have the youngest (and one of the best) defenses in the league. Cleveland is also on both their backup tackles, backup RB (starter was a star and what their team was based around) and consistently have one of the deepest offensive lines in the league.
Joe Douglas is an excellent scout and a really good VP of Player Personnel. He brought those skills to the Jets and they are where his office excels. Where he falls down is executing the vision of a GM, anticipating any sort of adversity and apparently gaining the trust of most players on the team. And what the fuck with the Oline? His behavior makes me think that he has an axe to grind against NFL offensive linemen. The draft picks were nice but not masterful. Getting the picks was masterful. You just can't argue with the results though. This is all on his watch.
I really don't think that the HC matters all that much in terms of a teams long term performance - I would take a top tier QB over any coach that's ever lived - pretty much every "great" coach has had a top tier QB to rely upon - there is always the odd exception like the Harbaugh with the Ravens (who had an elite D) and Andy Reid seems to do well regardless, but generally every coach that gets called great had a true franchise QB on the roster as it just makes everything else so much easier - the GM can be more important but only in so far as they get lucky in the draft (as no-one knows for sure) or they manage to pull off a trade (like the trade for Brees for example).
their defense is fantastic. won't argue there. but their offense no so much. they paid out the ass (and 3 1st rounders) for watson who has been suspended most of his time there and now got hurt. and even when he was playing he wasn't playing well at all. but on offense not much. njoku is a good dude but never really panned out. he's pretty mid at best. cooper isn't what he used to be and is just an OK WR right now. Moore hasn't gotten better since his rookie year with us. chubb is an elite RB but sadly got hurt. they had to kick the tires on hunt after that. But I guess after thinking it over they probably have pretty similar talent as us when both teams are healthy.
Where are the Jets beating the Browns? Linebacker maybe? The corners are a wash, they have two very good corners. Defensive line is a wash, they have the best edge rusher in the game (top 2-3 debatable at least). They have Grant Delpit who might be an All Pro safety this year. Their offensive line is lightyears better. I guess you can wash tightend and I’d say receiver too to be honest given the trash we have at the position. QB is a wash right now. The Watson trade was just awful and they’re still in good shape roster wise.
i'd give us back 7 as a whole on defense. d-line i'd call a wash. we don't have anyone garrett level but as a whole I think our d-line is better but calling that a wash is fair too. WR group both are kinda bad. TE goes to us. but if you want to group them in i'd probably still call it a wash for TE/WR. RB is tough. chubb is elite, but breece is too. they had no depth and we don't know what we have in izzy. they had to kick the tires on hunt who still looks pretty good. May call that a wash or slight advantage to them. at QB rodgers > watson. O-line goes to them.
If JD were a decent GM, we would have had Broderick, Dawand, and Cleveland here after he missed out on Orlando Brown. Build the wall in front or Rodgers. And this is not hindsight. All 3 of these guys a lot us were asking for at the time there was an opportunity to get them. Our best OLine player now is Becton. And even he is frankly below average. This is the guy whom JD shouldn't have even counted on given his injury history. As far as Carter Warren, I want to see more for sure. Max absolutely stinks. When Becton went down I saw that they gave Carter a lot of help with RBs and TEs, almost always he had second guy helping. Even with help he was not great, but wasn't terrible. I do want him to stay though in the line-up instead of Max. Max is just complete garbage.
thats a completly an insane take jones was drafted before we picked. it's like saying if he was a decent GM we'd have stroud. dawand was a 4th round gem. and also taken before our pick in the 4th. cleveland is an OG who was benched then traded away and is currently a backup in jax. throwing out names in hindsight is a meaningless argument. jon lynch is a great GM yet he traded 3 1sts to move up and take a QB 3rd overall who proceeded to fail so hard he got traded away for a 4th 3 years later after losing the backup job to another 1st round bust lol. you can't just cherry pick 1 thing and use it to try and prove a preconceived notion you have
Not at all. We owned #13 and should not have done a pick swap, until he is absolutely sure he can get top OT with 15. That's not an insane take but smart business. GB was on a hook for 110 mil of extra CAP and money for a guy they already said they are moving away from. 60 mil check had to be written first week of Sept. You don't do pick swap with 3 days still before the draft in this scenario. He did it because he didn't care about Jones as One Jets Drive showed later. In fact it looks like he didn't care much about OT at all. But this was dumb at the time he agreed to pick swap, it was even dumber when Jones was gone at #14, and it was absolutely moronic when Arod got hurt when OT missed a block. And as far as Dawand, especially after we missed out on Broderick, he traded down. It is easy to trade up in the 4th if you have a need, NE did it with us for Pete's sake! And many people wanted it. Except JD. Instead he traded down to take older, injury prone, inferior talent. As far as preconceived notion, look in the mirror. Objectively 4th season and we still suck and painful to watch. Is GM not responsible for this?
Look at GB now, they dumped their cap hell onto the Jets, collected multiple draft picks for their troubles and they still have the same record as the Jets
so your saying that we should have drafted jones and went with zach instead of trading for rodgers? GB was holding tight for good compensaiton. we got out of there cheap all things considered. 2 spots in the 1st round and a 2nd rounder
There were 3 days left until the draft. We would have had Rodgers, Broderick, and Dawand for good measure as well with a small trade up in the 4th. All of this was suggested at the time. Instead JD ignored OT and we all paid the ultimate price.
you an say he ignored it (i mean he did draft one in the 4th but still) but the reality is he didn't like jones that much. from the vids we seen his board for the 15th pick was 1) gibbs 2) WMD 3) mayer 4) Jones had we traded up in the 4th and got dawand would you be complaining? nobody knew he'd come out so good. thats the mystery of late picks the reason your thinking doens't work is there are fans of other teams saying the same all the time. our GM ignored CB and could have had MC2 in the 4th our GM ignored WR and could have had puca in the 4th our GM ignored QB and could have had purdy in the 6th all fans think their GM can do whatever they want and should do whatever their fans want but thats not the reality of having 32 GMs all jockying for players with different scouts and such.
I think it’s splitting hairs to say who we should/shouldn’t have picked because the counter is that we very easily could’ve traded up and picked this guy; https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaniBr00.htm But I will agree with you to an extent - JD is an awful talent evaluator for mid round offensive lineman or lower tier free agent signings. And in order to build the line you need to be good at one of those two things or else you’re going to be stuck with a trash line like we are.
mid round lineman. he's only taken 2. mitchell and warren and both are still TBD for low tier FAs? JFm, quincy, huff, reed, moses, fant, whitehead those were all low tier FAs not really sure the point here?
The thinking does work because we had a major need and many people wanted to make sure we keep #13 for Broderick/Wright/Paris. Then when JD fucked that up since we did not have a 3d and Dawand fell to 4th many people wanted a trade up. Instead JD traded down to take a significantly inferior injury prone older talent. We had a major need that was ignored and it cost us dearly. That's on JD. I wouldn't be complaining if he addressed OLine in 4 years here. Rodgers would still play and we are probably leading the conference right now. But that didn't happen.
I’d say Mitchell is pretty well defined. He shouldn’t be relied on as a starter next year at this point. He signed Moses and Fant and they both left and he didn’t retain them. My point is that he hasn’t been able to find lower tier offensive lineman free agents to fill gaps very effectively. A nice mix of top end talent (first round picks) and lower tier talent (lower picks, lower tier signings) is how you build offensive lines in this league. The Eagles have a 6th round pick, 7th round pick, two 2nd round picks and a 1st round pick as an example.
Well one way to do it was when a consensus 2nd round talent who did incredibly well on the same team as Paris against the best competition slid all the way to the 4th is to trade up for him. I mean he made much more difficult trade up for JJ and Breece. But when it comes to Oline, JD looks clueless. Also Mitchell at this point not only cannot be relied upon as a starter, but also a back-up. I would play Carter Warren over him right now, guys like Max are dime a dozen on PS all around NFL.
