Originally Posted by johnny Never? I do remember an 80 yard TD drive that lasted all of :17 seconds. Happened about eight days ago. Does Chad do it as often as others? No. However to use words like never is stretching it just a bit too far. Does Chad have the weakest arm in the NFL at the moment? Probably of starting QB's - yes. That being said, as a whole I would take his game against the Pats over most other QB play that I have seen so far this year - in the playoffs. Didn't come out like I wanted it. I was in a hurry because I had to get back to work. What I meant to say is that I'd take Chad's game against the Pats last week pretty much over every other QB's performance so far in this year's playoff's. I have seen any great QB play so far THIS YEAR in the playoffs. Therfore, I believe that this notion that Chad would need a "Team of Ages" around him to get / win the SB unfounded.
for someone so smart and proven, i find myself wondering which Chad will show up each week. if it was JUST his arm strength, i wouldn't be as concerned as i am. cheers
Actually if you want to quote stats on not coming back from a deficit in the fourth quarter perhaps you should also look at the stat that once the Jets have a lead going into the fourth quarter (under Pennington) the Jets are 28-4. Probably not all world, but not bad if you ask me.
You just gotta luv these Chad fights at the end of every season. I think this FO/CS knew going in that Ramsey wasn't gonna beat out Chad and that the only reason they didn't draft a young QB to truly challenge is because they had to upgrade the OL first and give themselves the best chance for a successful first effort. They knew unless Chad's rehab was a complete fraud, they would be getting a QB who's heady and tough and probably could master Shott's Offense without needing a year's run up to do it. They also wanted to avoid any semblance of a Qb controversy IF Chad for some reason didn't cut it. What we wound up with was a great situation for a rookie FO/CS to come in to. Down the road, I would be really surprised if Clemens ever plays on his rookie contract. I also think as long as Chad can play in the short passing game and get us a playoff appearance? He'll start. Perhaps they'll buy time by continously upgrading the OLine. I believe the only way the Jets make the SB with Chad as QB is to have a Ravens/Patriots calibre defense. All Chad has to do is manage the next 5 seasons or so and we should be in business.
That is a valid point & I agree completely. I feel if he does end up failing that it will be because his mental attributes have been overrated. I've said this a # of times throughout the season but if you look at the games that Chad just killed us and was the main reason for the loss, it was because he was making terrible decisions not cause he couldn't make the throws..
If that turns out to be the case and Pennington does not develop into an All-Pro, then the Jets selection of Kellen Clemens was a terrible waste.
You mean if entering his 11th season in the NFL he has a 55% completion percentage with 1 more lifetime TD pass than Ints and under a 7 yard per pass play average? If he is considered the weakest link on a Broncos team that otherwise might have gone to 2 or 3 super bowls? No, I'll figure the Jets made the right call if that's the case. I've watched a lot of Cutler since the midway part of the season and he's not going to be a great QB. If he gets a great team installed around him he won't prevent them from winning a super bowl, just like Elway didn't prevent the Broncos from doing that, but he's not a great QB by any stretch. In fact I don't really think he's as good as Eli Manning and I don't like Manning either.
Yanno, for all the years we've read each other's posts, I have to give it to you Br4dw4y. You're consistent man! Kudos!!! I think Cutler has intangibles that EManning doesn't at this point. I also think Cutler is a better QB than Manning was at similar points in their careers. If I had to choose between the two, I'd take Cutler over Manning in a heartbeat. I would imagine that any QB, under the right tutelage, could become better. I honestly believe in the intangibles and I have a feeling Cutler will lead the Broncos to a SB before Clemens does the same with a team. Now, if I were always right with my prognostications, I'd pick 6 good numbers in the lottery and vanish..
Not sure about Clemens never playing on his rookie contract but I think most..most of the Chad detractors have always said yes, the Jets could win a superbowl with Chad at QB. It would just take having the defenses that you mentioned and Chad being Chad...ball control..limit mistakes etc. I do agree with a lot of your post cman..good points. Champ actually made a very solid point earlier. I mentioned how the Bucs and the Ravens won superbowls with less then average qbs. Champ made the point that even though the QBs were less then average..they still had the ability to stretch a defense. Its a solid point..not because they would..but because they could..and Chad cant. Now the defenders will bring up the Moss bomb..and the Coles bomb...and maybe the 60 yard pass he overthrew in preseason last year. Its like talking about how you almost won the the pick 6..when you had only the first two numbers.
this is a new day and age in football the players are getting faster and stronger way stronger then chads arm can accommodate. chad almost got leon washington and L coles killed in the miami game. why you ask!! well his arm is to weak he can not throw with strentgh when a receiver runs his route the ball must be in the air before they turn around and almost to the receivers hands they have like maybe a second or two to catch it. chad can not produce that and with quarterbacks like brady and manning they can hit you like 40-50 yards down field with a bullet pass.
the year that both of those teams won the superbowl there defense were ranked vey high if not number 1 that year
Your first sentence is very on the money. Defenses are cheating like never before. Even against the better QBs. Its an excellent point.
History tells me Kellen Clemens will take over as the Jets starting quarterback at some point in the 2007 season. In the salary cap era, only four quarterbacks drafted in the 1st or 2nd round sat their first two years: Chad Pennington Marques Tuiasosopo Philip Rivers Aaron Rodgers The Raiders drafted Tuiasosopo when they had an All-Pro at the position. Mindless. Rivers sat for two years behind a Pro Bowl performer in Drew Brees. Rivers was drafted at a time when Brees had not yet developed into a top level quarterback. Rivers held out in camp and did not give himself a fair chance to win the job. Brees kept the job and ran with it for two years. Rodgers was drafted because the Packers thought Brett Favre was going to retire after the 2005 season. Favre came back for 2006 and that particular legendary player is not going to be benched. The only one of those four guys who should have played but did not play was Pennington. Testaverde's mediocre-at-best performance in 2001 cost the Jets the AFC Eastern Division title. Herman Edwards' idiocy and lack of vision kept Pennington on the bench. The crap continued into 2002. The Jets began the season 1-3, in part due to poor play at the quarterback position. Pennington took over after Testaverde got hurt in Jacksonville. Pennington got the start the following week. The Jets soon blasted off. Not a surprise. __ Clemens is going to have to out-and-out suck or get injured to not replace Pennington at some point in the 2007 season. Pennington is not an All-Pro like Rich Gannon was. He's not a legend like Favre. What he is is a mediocre quarterback who will be replaced sooner than you think. If Clemens is good, the Jets cannot afford to not play him. Not in this era of the salary cap. It's bad business. If Clemens does not play in 2007 it is because he either: sucks (and we'll then call him the white Tuiasosopo) or gets injured.
Excellent research here. I went looking for other people who sat the whole 2 years and could not find any. Note that a number of QB's had between 50 and 100 attempts in that second year but they all played to some degree. The all-pro was 36 and retired just two and a bit seasons later. Tuisasopo may not have been the guy to replace him but the drafting of a QB in 2001 on the first day was a good idea. Couple of things here: First, Pennington was not a Bradway/Herm pick, so they had no particular investment in him, although he was a considerable asset of the Jets that was depreciating under their watch. It's not unusual for a new regime to put people who do not have clearly visible talents on the back burner as they try to sort things out. Second, Vinny had a pro arm and Chad was a question mark. Vinny was a guts and glory player, like Herm, and Chad was a cerebral thinker like Paul Hackett. Everything pointed to Vinny for Herm and away from Chad. Hackett eventually won the quiet argument he was having with Herm on the question when Vinny started so poorly in 2002. Without the poor start Vinny continues to decline slowly, the Jets continue to decline slowly and Hackett gets fired at the end of 2003. I really believe that last part. Wins and losses will be the main factor in 2007. It's going to come down to whether the Jets are on pace for 9 or 10 wins next year or not. If not then you'll see Clemens for sure. Mangini is not going to lose 9 or 10 games just to play Clemens, although he'll put him out there if that's what he thinks he's going to get anyway. Or Chad plays very well (better than last year because the schedule is a lot rougher) and keeps the Jets on a playoff track or near it.
First of all, I don't agree with drafting a QB in the first two rounds when you have an All-Pro at the position regardless of his age. Gannon then went on to have two more superb seasons and led the Raiders to a Super Bowl. On to the 2001 Jets season. We know that Testaverde looked better than Pennington because of the arm strength and experience. I had no problem with Testaverde starting at the beginning of the season. But he soon started to not play well. At some point he has to be pulled. What is amazing is the fact that Edwards was a first year head coach. It would have been so easy for him to play Pennington. He wasn't going to get fired if the Jets crashed and burned with a first-year starter. It's unreal to me why Testaverde was not benched. Testaverde- what a great man. His injury in 1999 ruined the Jets season and led to Bill Parcells' retirement. That led to Bill Belichick leaving and taking the Patriots job. Obviously, Testaverde did not purposefully get injured. But the injury did lead to the dismantling of that Jets coaching staff. I'm just sayin'. Later, Testaverde turned in a dud performance in the key December 2, 2001 game against the Patriots. That Jets loss was the difference between 1st and 2nd place. The Patriots used that win to springboard themselves to a league title. Now I have to watch this supposed lifelong Jets fan douche it up with the Patriots. Was it really necessary for Testaverde to take the final snap last week? That gave me the impression Testaverde is either a moron or holds a grudge against the Jets.
Gannon was 36 years old. How many QB's have started for a couple of seasons after that even if they were still at peak play? Can't be more than a handful, even with the bias built-in that they had to be doing great at 36.
Montana didn't have a rocket, neither did Starr, Griese, Stabler, and others but that;s not the point. you guys blame every loss on Chad's arm when in fact it had nothing to do w/ his arm. We lost against NE b/c we couldn't stop them on D and played lousy STs. Our offense and Chad played well- Chad played ALOT better than Rivers and didn't have an LT to hand it off to and didn't have great weather at home to throw in. Chad has been nothing but a winner here since the ay he stepped on the field and he gets criticized way too much. They startd w/ 1:05, he hit gates for 14 yards then the 2nd play didn't begin until :40 secs. That's 25 secs for 14 yds and he wasted another 5+ secs moving a receiver to the other side then throwing a 3 yd pass and that 3 yd pass is on BOTH Gates and Rivers. Rivers shouldn't have thrown it and Gates shouldn't have caught it. Those 2 plays wasted 41 of 75 secs and only got them 17 yds. how was he poor? he was 14 of 32 for 230 yds and a TD, threw an INT and fumbled(though that was on 4th down but the least he could have done was throw it downfield and hope a fumb Pats defender picked it off), he executed that last drive as poorly as one could, he got the ball back tied w/ 4:30 left and after LT set up 2nd and 5 he couldn't even get a 1st down on 2 pass plays giving it right back to Brady. Yes he led them to 3 TDs, 3 Tds that were all the results of LT's work. The on drive where it was "passing" was a screen to LT. Rivers was terrible all day. it's downright comical how you can bash Chad all year then Rivers plays awful but you praise him. that was about 30 yds downfield into traffic and I guess you forgot 58 of Rivers' 230 was on a 58 yd screen that was all LT?
