jumping in here, it was a screen to 32, it was covered, mcgovern is still legal, zach has 1 read on a play like this which is screen to the RB, it wasn't there so you dirt it at his feet and move on.
Not that you're saying this, but had he done this, how many here would seize on that and say "See? Zach can't even throw a simple screen pass?".
if they say that, they are dumb. the play has 0 chance at success. the throw away is his best option at that point. milano recognized it and blew it up. it happens.
As a kind of aside here I'm kind of glad we got Lazard so far especially with Corey Davis retiring. Lazard might not be Jerry Rice or Michael Irvin but he's big, strong, flexible, and useful to have around and he seems to be a pretty good team guy as well from what I can discern from afar. When he's on the field the other team has to at least somewhat respect him which is critical to take some heat off GW.
First let me say how insane it is that this is a conversation. Digging into the minutia of NFL rules based off one play in a game. But it beats the shit out of work. Second... McGovern never engaged with anyone. He set up the screen immediately and was beyond the LOS within two seconds of the snap which makes him illegal. For him to be legal he'd have to be forced back behind the LOS by a defender. None of it even matters because the play was designed to go to one person and one person only. Passing to a WR is not an option and Zach shouldn't be criticized for not doing so.
I agree with the first statement, but what the hell is there to discuss except going back and forth on whether Zach sucks or not? But I don't know if your interpretation is correct. If he did engage with a defender then I think he'd have to be driven back to the LOS by the defender...maybe. But if didn't engage and he realized the screen pass was busted and Zach was in scramble mode, I think the rule permits him to return to the LOS and not be subject to a penalty. In any case, I don't think the rule clearly addresses this situation from my reading of it.
yeah lazard isn't lighting the world on fire but he was low key a great pick up, that only looks better with davis retiring suddenly.
the reality is it's not the linemans fault. an illegal downfield on a screen for a lineman is always the QBs fault. once the RB has the ball lineman are free to go upfield all they want. they expect the RB to have the ball under 2 seconds or the play to be done (dirted at his feet) it's nto their job to watch the QB and make sure he throws it.
Well they don't necessarily have to be watching the QB to know what's happening. Either ball was thrown to the intended RB or not within about 2 seconds. If not, then they can assume the QB is scrambling (or sacked).
There's an explanation by Dean Blandino in the YouTube I linked about five posts back that pretty much covers what you're asking. It's not like an offsides where the defense can jump back onside before the snap if they haven't made contact - once the guy is more than a yard downfield without contact with a defender, he's illegal. As your post shows above, if he loses contact and does not advance any farther before a pass is thrown he's okay. Not an expert, just a student of the game but in the particular play you note (the one where Wilson ran backwards 28 yards) McGovern first paralleled the line no more than a yard out with no one near him and was legal. At no time does the video show any Bills player anywhere near him after he left his initial position. At a point about 3 1/2 seconds into the play when Wilson had turned away from the play just before McGovern goes out of the frame it looks like he turns upfield which makes him illegal and is probably what drew one of the two flags on the play; no other lineman ever went beyond the line at all. After looking at the full screen replay rather than the Manning view it is definitely McGovern who was flagged and he was about four yards downfield, still with no one near him.
The bigger thing is it doesn’t even apply here because if he got the pass out to Wilson or Cobb when Ralebird wanted him to, it would have been a penalty.
Not true, McGovern was legal until he turned upfield three plus seconds after he snapped the ball, right about the same time that ZW turned away from the line.
Again, it doesn’t matter because there was no option to throw to Wilson. That’s not the play. Wilson was never expecting a ball, Zach was never going to throw it to him. That’s how a screen play works 9.5 times out of 10.
thats not how the play is taught. lineman have their job, whats happening behind them isn't a concern. he's gotta get to the 2nd level and block a LBer
Ok, Zach didn't play well but we don't have to fabricate narratives. You're free to interpret that sideline video of GW, Lazard, and Hackett talking to Zach how you'd like (I personally interpreted it as guys rallying around their guy who was put in an incredibly tough spot on the biggest of stages) but GW went on record with SVP immediately after the game saying, "Zach rallied the troops, he did, he took that step in the locker room and we came together and did what we had to do in the 2nd half", and "Zach brought us together and that was everything we needed today". Link to that video clip here. Again, you can choose to believe GW or not and it's possible he's just blowing smoke to hype up Zach but we all saw last year that GW doesn't tend to sugar coat things so I find it highly unlikely GW fabricated this story to try and make Zach look better.
Lineman are given a set amount of time to block and release when they are taught to block and release. They need to try to get hands on and count something like one one thousandth two and release. They can’t really try to anticipate anything else. If the QB doesn’t dirt the ball right away he needs to generally know that he has to run or it’s a penalty. It’s not really something that is that big of a deal either way though. Those plays happen to all QB’s where the screen gets fucked and a lineman ends up down field. Why is this being discussed in depth again?
Agreed. If anything I’m glad he was fucking pissed on the sidelines when he made a bad throw. Sure seems like some decent strides from his shoulder shrugging whatever mentality. I don’t really ever like to over analyze the sideline behavior either. Players fight and it’s captured on camera and everyone loses their mind over some huge riff. The only time there’s a big issue is when players get real almost physically aggressive with a coach.
Sorry, I've never seen a one man screen in the NFL. Contrary to what someone marked up earlier on a still from the Manning cast McGovern was the only guy going towards the line, the other four were heading backwards. Both Wilson and Cobb were looking back at Zach with their hands in the "gimme" position with Wilson on the 34 facing directly at GW before he made his turn away from the play. I said earlier it may not be obvious if you're watching on a phone but it is very clear on the TV and computer.
