Couldn't agree more. unfortunately for us I dont think Mike will be available until best case the Seattle game if at all. So we should root like hell for Wilson and this team to pull off some wins. That is all we can hope for.
If you watched Zach @ BYU then you saw the same thing right now. Zach was consistently late across the middle of field, but his arm and ball velocity made up for it against slower competition. There are many youtube videos highlighting this flaw. If Zach played against faster college competition he would’ve been drafted as high.
The amount of negative energy spent on Wilson is really astonishing. I don't think I've ever seen a thing quite like it in NY sports. Even Geno was likes more than Wilson. Wilson has not been good this year. I'm sure if you go searching posts you might find someone with an outlier take of he has been, but 99% of the people realize he hasn't played well with the exception of a few games (and some won't even give him that.) He wasn't good in the first NE game (I posted as much afterwards) and he was tragically bad in the second NE game. He needed to be sat down and he was. The Jets were 6-4 and the playoffs were very much in the picture. So the Jets made the right call and went to White. White was fantastic against the Bears and we improved to 7-4. Then he played average at best the next two and we lost them both. The losses were not all on him. And I don't think we were ever beating Buffalo. But that Minn game was there for the taking. The Jets were prepared to sit Wilson the rest of the year. White got hurt. It's not Wilson's fault White got hurt. The Jets choices were Wilson, Flacco and Streveler. We all agree Flacco is done. Streveler has never played against anyone other than guys that are probably out of the league by now. How the hell can you hand him the ball with the playoffs still a possibility?? That's nuts. The Jets proved they are capable of winning with Wilson at QB. I'm not saying he was *the* reason, but it is possible. They even beat Buffalo with no Breece or AVT. Going back to Wilson was the only move. Wilson played well enough to win the last game. He put them in front with 4 to play and then got them at least a chance to tie at the end. To say he should have had them up by 30 at that point is some real revisionist history. That argument didn't fly with White against Minn and it shouldn't fly with Wilson. So as what has been an exciting season winds down to all we can talk about is how shitty Wilson is. Any joy from this season has been sucked out of it. We haven't been in this position in 7 years but all that matters is trashing Wilson with countless posts and topics. He's the quarterback until White comes back. He's the backup QB playing because the starting QB is hurt. Most other teams' fans get behind the backup, even if he sucks. Jets fans really are some kind of special.
Washington drafted Kirk Cousins to be a backup to RGIII who they took on the same pick the Jets took ZW. They drafted them in the same draft. Cousins is an okay comp for one of the Jets QB's but ZW is not the QB.
I wonder who said that? No one that I recall. The point I was trying to make was that the Jets don't have anyone on staff who - try as they might - is competent at developing a young QB. And anyone offering up White's "development" as a counter argument is mixing apples and oranges. Whatever "development" MW has received has been mainly by his own initiative, which makes his success all the more impressive. And it should serve as an example to Zach to not sit and wait for the Jets to help him in any measurable way. All that said, it doesn't excuse the Jets failure to get the right people and program in place to ensure their #2 overall pick succeeds.
yes. rollouts you still have to block and the intended target needs to be in position to receive a throw that is not overly risky. and yes. hes got wheels enoiugh. i feel he should be averaging about 25-35 yds per game...
Yes, he was a pocket passer, but I didn't emphasize that because the "BYU pocket" isn't the same as the "NY Jets pocket". You're right though - given decent protection he was the 2nd most accurate passer in the NCAA behind Mac Jones his senior year, so it stands to reason (a commodity in short supply here) that he could return to form if given better protection. And we saw that when the OL was playing well and without major injuries. But when it became swiss cheese Zach's mechanics and ability to process sank accordingly. That said, why was MW able to handle the same swiss cheese OL so much better? Because he's 4 years older and has 4+ years experience in the pros - even if that experience wasn't in live game action or as a starter. Obviously White gained experience because he sucked so bad that Dallas cut him, and he barely escaped the Practice Squad on the Jets. Too many here are ready to dump Zach on the trash heap too soon. He has the tools and ability to be a Top 10 QB if the Jets can figure out how to utilize him. Ideally, they should get someone on staff who has success in developing young QBs, but at a minimum they should have him sit and learn behind someone - maybe White or maybe a QB with a deep winning pedigree, like Brady or Rodgers, or maybe even R. Wilson. If they're not willing to do that much they should trade him.
I think it is unfair to blame coaches for not developing Zach, but by the same token not credit them for developing White. Either it is both or none. Jets picked up White when he stunk for Cowboys in preseason and they waived him. Between then and now they stuck with him and even waived their own draft pick Morgan over him. This preseason when I thought Streveler outplayed Mike, they still kept him on active roster. They picked up his RFA option. And he is now much improved. The QB coaches are there for all QBs, not just Zach. If anything Zach got extra last year with Beck. Offseason program also has to be individual for all, this is by CBA rules. So, we need to be fair: so far they haven't developed Zach, but they certainly did White, because he is a lot better. Where I do think they have gone wrong in retrospect is that Zach should have sat the first year. 49ers did the same thing with Lance. Granted Lance got hurt in the second year, but that's besides the point really. They saw he wasn't ready to play and asked him to sit and learn. Zach is not unlike Lance in the sense where they didn't play for top schools, didn't face top competition. They didn't have to go against future NFL players on weekly basis, like Lawrence and Fields. Yet Zach was thrown in with shitty weapons to play against NFL players right away. OLine at the start was bad too, though better at the end of the 1st year. By that time his star receivers were Montgomery, Berrios, Wesco, Brown, Mims, Smiths, and Black, who all suck. And even this year, weapons are better, but OLine is crap. I think coaching was there, but the right way would have been to sit him the first year, and get a better Oline this year. Even White got hit too much with this OLine, not just Zach. But, hindsight vision is 20/20 - I actually thought JD did improve OL on paper, but it didn't work out that way.
I disagree that the Jets spent much time developing White. But the other aspect of development is designing your offense to maximize the strengths and minimize the weaknesses. Can you say the Jets have done that? Even going back to Darnold, who was making some progress despite less than effective development by Bowles & Co, and then came the "genius" Gase and we saw what happened. The Jets are not designing plays that help Zach, unlike the Bears who are helping Fields out and utilizing his running ability even though I'm sure they prefer he become a standard NFL pocket QB. The Jets should be doing everything they can do to help Zach succeed and they aren't.
i would also add that Bill Walsh also said that you’ll know about a QB by about 24-26 games into his career…by that time if the QB doesn’t show it he most likely never will
White is very good at going through his protections. He's very accurate. I don't think he has the best touch on passes that need them. He's also a complete statue in the pocket. His mobility is about as low as you can get which is fine if you have a great pass protecting OL. Right now the Jets do not. And when you factor in that he's built like Joe Montana, it's not a good recipe for staying healthy. He's never made it more than 3 games and that is definitely troubling.
There’s still no NFL pocket like a college pocket. There are very few quarterbacks that stand behind brick walls and if they do, it’s generally for half seasons at a time until one main cog goes down. In recent memory there was a Cowboy team with Martin, Frederick and Tyron Smith in their primes that did this. The 2017 Eagles were like that to an extent but they still allowed almost 40 sacks. So he better learn to deal with some pressure pretty quickly.
And how do you come to this conclusion? They had 3 guys working with him last year. Your dismissing Zach’s failures as if they aren’t his fault, as if the Jets had some magic QB whisperer then Zach would be thriving. Let’s take Zsch’s awful mechanics for example. You don’t think Zach knows proper mechanics? You don’t think someone on the team is working with him and emphasizing proper mechanics? Yet the moment Zach steps on the field he reverts back to these awful habits. It’s the same for football intelligence. You don’t think someone is saying hey Zach, on this play if you see Quarters/3 man/single high safety/man press/Cover 2 then your action should beA/B/C/D etc..? Of course they are. Doesn’t seem Mike White has a problem with the play concepts. Yet time and again Zach eschews the open receiver the play was designed for to double clutch, run backwards and take sacks or throw wildly dangerous passes off platform that people like you get a hard on about. The off platform stuff should be the response when the play breaks down. You don’t deliberately break down a good play to go off platform. That’s the difference between Zach and Mahomes. Mahomes can play devastatingly well within the offense as designed, and if the D plays it well and forces a breakdown then Mahomes off platform skills come into play. Zach can’t play within an offense. He handed the ball off on a pass play call against NE. He doesn’t understand concepts because HE isn’t getting it. The WR’s get the concepts. They seem to believe in MLF and Saleh even with all the BS accountability that was unfairly piled onto them. We could literally have the greatest QB whisperer on the planet and Zach wouldn’t get it. If I’m being honest I just don’t think he has the desire it takes to commit his life completely to football. He walked into TC this year with literally no improvement mentally or mechanically. That’s not on the team, it’s on him.
Agreed on White: I am not sure why people are ignoring the fact Mike is 4 years older than Zach - if anything Mike actually shows that you can improve as a young guy - even without playing a lot of games when you are not ready. In fact, it might actually be better to sit and learn in these situations. Again, it is not Zach's fault for the Jets playing him when he wasn't ready. I don't know what other QBs would look like if they played first two seasons at young age when they are not ready, but I did show some of these who did play without looking very hard for it, like Cousins or White didn't do too well when they played at younger age, were sat down, and then greatly improved with time. Age does matter. If you play a 22 year old guy who never faced great competition in College right away in NFL, it is different than playing 24 year old who did. Let's go through the list of NFL starters today and see when they had their 1st decent NFL season. Here is the list of these who did it at 24 years of age or after: Derek Carr, Russ Wilson, Burrow, Baker, Tannehill, Mike White, Cousins, Jimmy G, Dalton, Rogers, Brady, Heinicke, Geno. Some never had good season yet, while starting at 24+ like Pickett. There are quite a few, and this is not NFL history, we are talking starters today. Does that mean Zach is likely to succeed because he is 23? No, but it's certainly not a foregone conclusion.
Straw man. I never said that. I'm not going to bother responding to the rest of your post if you can't be honest about what I've said.
Ok, so there’s very little data of anyone having two very bad seasons in the NFL and then becoming good players, right? I don’t even care about age anymore because you keep mangling the topic and talking about guys who come out of college at later ages. All of the players you listed sans White were much better at the 21 game mark than Wilson is. And Mike White looks like a good situation journey-man that can have a Case Keenum in Minnesota type year. If that’s the bar for Wilson, we’re in trouble.
