Exactly! The only negative is that we gave up a 6th. But If Shaq plays well, it will be well worth it. And if for some reason he manages to realize first round talent under Saleh, we still have rights to him next year. All depends on his production, but I think it's worth a 6th rounder, as much as I hate to give up the assets at this stage of rebuilding process.
No. You are barking up the wrong tree. I was making a mental comparison between Carl Lawson and a totally different player. I agree with your first sentence, although I would roll it back a bit. It's a clueless way to judge DL players as a whole. As a way to judge someone whose primary role is a pass rusher it is more relevant, but still does not tell the whole story.
Per over the cap, Miami will have 2x the cap hit and the Texans 3x what we will pay S Lawson this year attributed to him. The Texans then have a 5.3 million hit in 22.
Looking at the stats provided by DWC, I'm again reminded of the Mark Twain quote: "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damnable lies, and statistics." Meaning you can bend them to whatever purpose you want. The Jets fan in me hopes that they add up to predicting what he'll do for us (or better), while the realistic side of me wonders why the Texans would let this All Pro potential player go so cheaply, and pay his salary? I'm hoping that it's a combination of his having a bad attitude after being traded twice, and ending up in the dumpster fire of Houston, and a numbers/money issue, and that under Saleh he can achieve the potential that the statistics imply. But in the end, we'll only learn the answer on the field.
That's why I am not super excited about this move: it cost us an asset, and if the guy is so good, while there is a sale in Houston, someone else could have offered more than a 6th rounder for his cheap 1M CAP hit. I still think it is probably worth the 6th rounder risk, but it's not as obvious to me that it is a steal just yet - until I see the guy play.
Look, I also think the trade was worth the price we gave, but let's not compare the two. I hate to rain on your parade, but Carl had a summer camp where he absolutely dominant while Shaq sucked ass all summer and looked like shit in preseason. Chances are he WAS going to be cut, but most likely then would not end up with the Jets as someone else would pick him up with higher waiver priority. JD just made sure he comes to the Jets by giving up 6th pick. He could become a productive player for us, given Saleh, etc, but this is not anywhere near equal replacement for Carl. A depth piece in the position of need for a cheap CAP hit and a 6th rounder. Fair enough.
The only quibble I have with this is that I think only the Jags have a higher waiver priority than us, but still they might well have snagged him before us since they need a lot of help too. JD did the smart thing by making this low risk trade.
I'll agree to disagree because I believe both JD and especially Robert Saleh zoomed in on Shaq Lawson (specifically) and for a reason too. Shaq Lawson in 2019 was a big time piece and an impact player on a Buffalo Defense that ranked 2nd and 3rd in Points given up and Yards allowed; and he was dominant. He was more than just "depth" for that Buffalo Defense too. He ranked... 1st in QB pressures (28). 1st in QB hits (18). 1st in tackles for loss (13). 1st in QB hurries (12). 1st in QB Knockdowns (9). 2nd in team sacks (6.5). He was by far their best pass rusher and the one who lived in the backfield the most; and on a Defense that was top 3 in the league. Imo you are severely underrating the impact of Shaq Lawson because Carl Lawson has never once impacted for a dominant NFL Defense and alongside of Quinnen Williams; Shaq Lawson is going to absolutely FEAST (and like never before too).
That's actually what concerns me. We have a coach now on defense (Whitecotton) who was with him in Buffalo, and he wanted him in, since he remembers the guy who was good. I wouldn't call above numbers dominant, but he was solid to be sure. The problem is that he sucked since. He got a big contract based on this Buffalo production, then underperformed the contract in Miami, and looked like dog shit this off-season for Texans. The point is that this summer he is not the guy who played well and got a big contract off of Bills, yet Whitecotton remembers that guy. It's a huge question if Saleh and Whitecotton can make him that guy again. I hope he can, in which case it is a steal. More likely I think he will be a decent rotation piece at the position where we lost two key guys, which at this stage of market is not bad for a 6th rounder. If you turn out to be right and he beasts out, I would be ecstatic. I will believe it when I see it though, since it is pretty hard to imagine after the summer he just had. Basically, for the same reason there was a lot of excitement about Carl after his performance in training camp and pre-season, there isn't much of that about Shaq.
2019 wasn't long ago. He was still apart of Miami's D that ranked top 6 last year in points allowed. 2019 he was super impactful. 2020 was a covid tainted season with no fans. 2021 this dude is coming to feast as our starting DE.
COVID is no excuse. He wasn't good in 2020, he was even worse in training camp and preseason in 2021. It's not trending the right way, but we are desperate with Carl and Curry injuries, so we took a chance on potential. I get it, I think it was a decent move, particularly with good defensive coaches we now have, but the realist in me is saying a decent rotation piece at this point. Anything less would be a disappointment since we gave 6th. Anything more would be a bonus.
The issue here is not whether or not Lawson is going to get a few sacks for the Jets this year. He very likely is going to get a few sacks. The issue is that whatever he does for the Jets this year is going to have very little bearing on whether the 2023 Jets are any good or not. He's very unlikely to still be a Jet that year and if he is a Jet very unlikely to be a key contributor to whatever the team develops into. What he is going to do over the next year or two is take an opportunity away from the 22-23 year old people the Jets should have been developing as an edge over that time span. The 2023 Jets will then pay the piper for whatever the 2021 Jets get this season. We go over the Jets lack of success on the edge since John Abraham left after 2005 repeatedly on this forum. Do you know what the Jets did when Abraham was traded? They signed Calvin Pace who was a good but not great player on the edge. They moved Bryan Thomas, who was a good but not great player out from DE to the edge. Those two guys, decent as they were, suppressed any chance the Jets had to develop a great edge. We've been paying the price for that ever since.
From what I've seen he may add a bit of ferocity to our "controlled chaos" defense. If he can take some heat off of Quinnen... even better. Low risk for a guy that may respond to a good tune-up.
I hear what you are saying, and last year after it became obvious we were not going anywhere, it was us giving away OK defensive players for picks. Some (not to be named) even called that tanking Now we are in a different spot. While I 100% agree the focus is on 2023, and there is no way I would give up a decent pick for someone who will not be here in 2023, we need to balance that with putting a competitive team on the field. We lost two key guys at the position of great need. We did not give up a decent pick, only a very late one. We have a 2023 option for the guy we got in case he actually plays well. If he does play well, he could actually help take pressure to score off of Zach, whose development the season is all about. All things considered, even with 2023 view as the primary objective, given the low cost we gave, the move is decent.
It's pretty clear that Saleh doesn't want to wait for development on the defensive line because his scheme is absolutely dependant on 4 man pressure and I'm guessing he's not the type of guy to suffer through 4 win seasons in the name of rebuilding. He's got young starters in the LB and CB rooms, how many more first and second year players you want starting? I think he's got a nice balance of veterans and young players at the top of the depth chart and judging by the continued search for productive dlinemen, he has prioritized the areas where he's willing to play the youngest players. He intimates a lot of this stuff during his press conferences. It's like a Westhoff presser without the oozing self-obsession.
If Saleh isn't willing to build from scratch he is very likely to fail. Rebuilding is what good teams fallen on hard times do. the Jets are like a sack full of cat puke.
Well, you're persistent, if not consistent. A few posts back you were shitting on the Jets for signing/trading for guys who are older that will stunt the growth of their youngsters and/or prevent them from knowing what they can do. Now you're shitting on them for trying to "build from scratch", presumably relying on unproven young players. You're not even coherent anymore.
