In some ways, Fields would have been better off if he had gone to Duke. He wouldn't have had all the great talent around him or made it into that national playoffs, but he would have been playing in more of an NFL-type offense and would have received a LOT better coaching in how to play QB from Cutcliffe.
In no way do I agree with this at all. Duke? lol Ryan Day Is actually really good with QB's and helped Justin Fields a lot with his craft. His technique and football IQ improved tremendously with Ryan Day. I'm not worried about Justin Fields In those terms at all.
This Is completely wrong. There wasn't a time, at any point, last season that BYU didn't have much better talent than any team or defense that they faced. Including the team they lost to In Coastal Carolina. You are trying really hard to make a square peg fit a round hole with this. Huge talent disadvantage? How much college football do you actually watch? Nothing within this post Is relevant, let alone accurate.
The Vick and Lamar comps are so weird to me considering when you watch him play, you want him to run & use his athleticism way more than he does. He tends to stay in collapsing pockets too long looking for the big shot downfield sometimes taking unnecessary shots in the process. Guys like Lamar and Vick bail at almost every chance.
Well, it's gotten to the point of splitting hairs, and I sure don't have enough information - first-hand observation, every second of tape, live interviews, interviews of family, friends, teammates going back to HS, and most importantly I'm not an expert - so I can't say with certainty who will become the best. I'm sure not going to quit TGG or go on a rant because they take Fields or Lawrence instead of Wilson. As for Fields not having done anything to warrant being downgraded, his games against Indiana and NW have given some people cause for concern. Like it or not, fair or not, that's the nature of college football. How many times have we seen a great college team stumble and lose a game they should've won, and get knocked out of the top rankings by other lesser teams who have gone undefeated? Because in college subjective ranking is so heavily relied on, and teams and players usually don't play head to head, so there's no clear cut way to measure them. OTOH, his game against Clemson should've erased most doubts, but then he didn't look as awesome against Alabama, and while he obviously played hurt and was less than 100% with that rib injury that might well have caused other lesser players to not even play, it still leaves an impression, or at least some doubt for some. But for me, it's not that Fields did anything wrong, but that Wilson just impressed me with how he plays the game. While it's been said that Fields is a playmaker with his great running ability, Wilson is a playmaker because of his QBing ability - I'm using that term to capture the mental aspects as well as the game sense, as well as the arm talent to make something out of nothing. At the risk of being crucified by Wilson Bashers, I'll again say he has a Mahomes-like ability in this regard. And do I need to yet again explain that I'm NOT saying he's as good as Mahomes (or Rodgers, or Favre, or Elway - all of whom I see Wilson having some similarity to). In the end, if Douglas takes Fields or Lawrence instead of Wilson, I'll be fine with that. It doesn't matter whether I'm right, only that he's right.
I don't like Lamar Jackson. I think he is a shitty passer. Fields is a TON better at throwing the ball. Other than the running ability and the skin color I don't see the comparison. At all.
I rate his arm talent as less than Mahomes/Rodgers/Elway, but higher than you do. But I agree that much will depend on how close he is to those arms or not. I will always defer to your knowledge, but short of us being able to get some radar speed readings of his passes, it's hard to say for sure how close or far he is from that level. I will say I'd feel a lot more confident about his success if he clearly had a Mahomes-level arm. That said, arm strength typically increases over time, and it's not like he has a noodle arm.
Coastal Carolina was a much better team as was Boise state and Houston. But the point is that it is all relative. When one criticizes Wilson for a cupcake schedule the same can be said For Fields, Jones and Lance where they had a huge talent advantage each week. The difference is here without the QB OSU, NDS and Alabama would still have done just just as well. Without Wilson BYU is a .500 team at best.
The thing is that it's the "aesthetics" - i.e. intangibles - that are often the difference between a good or average QB and a great one. That's why there's so many mistakes made in drafting QBs - this is the one area that the metrics don't do a good job of measuring. And for me, intangibles go far beyond "mental processing ability" or whatever term is being thrown around. For example, IIR Fitzpatrick scored among the highest ever on the Wonderlic, and yet I wouldn't say that he possessed great intangibles, which for me equate more to the innate sense of play - knowing how to take advantage of situations, knowing when to gamble and when not to. Mahomes is the best example I can use to describe this. For me, this is the aspect that sets Wilson above the rest. That's not to say that Fields or (Lawrence) doesn't have these intangibles, I just don't see them displayed to the same level as Wilson.
That's why I said in some ways. He still would have been at a power 5 school, just wouldn't have had the national exposure that he got at OSU. I doubt that Day is better than Cutcliffe. I think he would have been better prepared to be a QB in the NFL, but wouldn't have had the success, exposure, winning, etc
Yup, and if Zack Wilson wasn't part of this draft, we'd be thrilled with Justin Fields sitting there at 2. Lucky even.
I like Lamar, but Fields is a completely different style of QB than he is, and has more potential IMO. But as you noted, so many people just look at the skin color and that they're both good runners and that makes them "the same".
Well the word “special” is being thrown around with Wilson in regards to his arm talent. To me Mahomes, Rodgers, Cutler, George, Stafford...etc. have “special” arm talent. To me when you are not in that tier , your weaknesses are more amplified. Note I don’t even include guys like Favre/ElwayAllen in that category because they are more pure arm strength than arm talent to me. So it’s not about solely about his arm strength.
I agree with everything except the part about OSU, NDS, Alabama (and I'll throw Clemson in too) doing "just as well" without their star QBs. I'm not saying there would be a huge drop off because these programs have a pipeline full of good QBs, but there likely would've been some level of drop. But yes, without Wilson, BYU is a .500 team.
in 2019, byu was 3-1 without wilson, 4-5 with wilson in 2018, byu was 3-3 without wilson, 4-3 with wilson
I hear you. I'm glad you clarified that about arm strength vs. arm talent, and I agree. That's a big reason why I wasn't high on Allen in college - great arm, stronger than Mahomes probably, but isn't nearly as accurate, even now. And I also agree - and have said all along - that Wilson doesn't have that level of "special". That said, I see him as being close, but I don't know how close, and that will make a big difference in whether he becomes great, or just okay. Short of hard measurements like the JUGS gun, I can only go off what I see in the context I see it, and I see great arm talent, if not quite "elite".
Allen utilized his legs early to keep BUF competitive as he developed. He did the same at Wyoming though it was more because of the lack of talent around him. That’s one of the reasons I preferred him for the Jets. I knew we would suck offensively early on but Allen’s running ability would help us sustain drives and at the very least keep our defense from getting worn out from constant 3 and outs. It’s one of the reasons I prefer Fields as well. Wilson’s current advantage at the nuances of quarterbacking is not going to have nearly the effect some think it will. Just like Darnold, Baker and Rosen’s advantage didn’t over Allen. Once you get on a NFL field it’s a total reset for everyone. In recent years it’s the guys that are able to survive off of high level physical traits as they learn and develop the mental part that have found success. Folks that think Wilson or any of these kids are going to come in and read NFL defenses pre and post snap are in for a rude awakening.
