You only have to read the conversation, it is all there, it doesn't really matter what you think he meant either NCJetsfan said 'Sorry, but I don't see one reason to keep him. Not one. IMO that reason is pure sentimentality/guilt/emotional. IMO it is not rational and doesn't make sense from a football perspective or a financial perspective. IMO it's a fairy tale to think we can keep Sam, trade down for a "haul of picks," his flaws will suddenly disappear overnight, he will become a top 10 QB in the NFL and he will take the Jets to a SB victory.' He was wrong there was one reason to keep Sam and it didn't involve guilt, sentimentality nor emotions either. So that is it, that was the state of play with that entire conversation don't over complicate things when that wasn't required And you're also telling me things that I already just said to you in the previous post lol (bolded) Even funnier the conversation and ensuing posts are all by people that do not want Sam to be QB next season anyway, almost comedy hour level funny
49ers reportedly doing 'due diligence' on QBs, interested in Jets' Sam Darnold Matt Fitzgerald, Sportsnaut 22 mins ago The San Francisco 49ers aren’t exactly sold on Jimmy Garoppolo as their quarterback of the future, and with the chance to land a potential long-term upgrade this offseason, they’re leaving no stone unturned to address the position. Sam Darnold has had a rough go of it with the Jets, but could a trade to the 49ers resurrect his career? According to the latest rumors, New York Jets signal-caller Sam Darnold is squarely on the 49ers’ radar. Michael Lombardi of The Athletic reported what he’s been hearing out of San Francisco regarding the team doing its “due diligence” for a QB, and how it pertains to Darnold and Garoppolo: "The 49ers are interested in adding a quarterback. ... Would they have an interest in Jets quarterback Sam Darnold? Yes, for sure. Why? Because Darnold fits the profile that Shanahan loves at the position: athletic, can throw moving to his left or right, and has the arm strength to make the defense defend every blade of grass on the field. ... And do I believe 49ers general manager John Lynch when he claims that Garoppolo will be his starter in 2021? Of course not. They are too active, too aggressive to run it back one more year with someone they don’t have complete trust in." Darnold has never been given a fair shake since the Jets drafted him third overall in 2018. He’s performed far worse than classmates Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, who all went in the first round and have led their teams to the playoffs. However, going from Adam Gase to Kyle Shanahan as a head coach and play-caller is about the biggest upgrade imaginable for a quarterback. Shanahan has never had someone to work with in his career as a play-caller who has the blend of size, athleticism and arm talent that Darnold has. It’s a question of whether he’s been too scarred by his experience in the Big Apple to ever put it together in the NFL. There’s no question Darnold runs better and throws the ball with more velocity than Garoppolo. What’s more alarming about Darnold is his lack of production to date, his penchant for turning the ball over and his overall accuracy. Injuries are Jimmy G’s biggest red flag, but when he was healthy enough to make it through the full 2019 season, he led San Francisco to a Super Bowl appearance. Shouldn’t Josh Rosen push Garoppolo, not Darnold? Since he’s still only turning 24 in June, there’s even more projection involved as to how Darnold would fare in San Francisco. Shanahan’s system is not easily digested, and Garoppolo has operated the offense well enough to post a 24-9 record as a starter with the 49ers, including the postseason. Garoppolo is also a bargain among quarterbacks who aren’t on a rookie contract. While cutting or releasing him would save the 49ers $23.6 million in salary-cap space, his $26.4 million cap number is relatively inexpensive. Again, it’s a matter of whether he can be available for a full season. Darnold would benefit from San Francisco’s play-action passing game and run-first identity. His cast of skill players would be better than anything he’s ever worked with on the Jets, too. Plus, he’s still on that cheap rookie contract and is far less expensive than even Garoppolo at this point. But there’s a third wild card at play in all this. Another 2018 first-round pick who’s gone from potential franchise savior to castoff and afterthought. He happens to be under contract with the 49ers for 2021 at a salary of $850,000. His name is Josh Rosen. Nope, his career has not worked out to date, but the Arizona Cardinals went with Kyler Murray at No. 1 overall after their disastrous year when Rosen was a rookie, whereupon first-time NFL head coach Steve Wilks was fired just one season into the job. Even then, Miami thought enough of Rosen to spend a second-round pick in a trade, only to draft Tua Tagovailoa in the top five. After a brief stint on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers’ practice squad to learn from the GOAT himself, Tom Brady — whom Garoppolo was once destined to replace in New England — Rosen wound up in the Bay Area, back in his home state of California. Is it so ridiculous to suggest that San Francisco sees what it really has in Rosen before taking the plunge on someone like Darnold? At least in New York, Darnold has had almost three full seasons’ worth of starts, while Rosen has had exactly one (16 starts). The situation for Darnold has been bad, but Rosen has arguably had it worse. Not just changing offenses like Darnold, Rosen has changed teams far more than expected. Bear in mind, that 2019 Dolphins team was destined to tank amid a 0-7 start, and Rosen was the man under center for Weeks 2 through 4. Granted, if the Niners are looking around for quarterbacks as hard as the rumors suggest, perhaps they can already tell Rosen doesn’t have “it.” They already have an in-house reclamation project, though, so trading for Darnold seems redundant — and not the best strategy to ensure Garoppolo is replaced by someone better.
Good take. This is pretty close to how I feel too. Yes, Sam SHOULD be given a better shot with a new team, fresh start. And yes, Saleh SHOULD get his own QB. But then real life hits. JD isn't gonna cut/trade his only QB until he either has Watson signed or he falls in love with a rookie in the draft. Just b/c we have the #2 doesn't mean there's a FQB sitting there. Every draft is different. Simm's take on Zack Wilson gives more credence to JD drafting a new QB. That's probably what JD would love to do, but he has to be smart about it. He doesn't want to trade Sam then draft the next Trabisky/Mariota/Rosen (he'd have been better off keeping Sam and building a good team around him). The better a prospect like Zack looks, the more likely that's the direction JD goes.
Retired Giants scout of 32 years. I Said the exact same thing acouple months back. But hey..its not a fancy bean counter PFF metric or fit into scapegoating Darnold..so by all means nothing to see here
Thanks! I'd love to and would if they weren't on Wednesday nights. I have a standing zoom meeting on Wednesday nights that start at 7 and aren't over until 8:30 or 9:00.
What is this guy's record on QBs? Just because he is a scout, doesn't mean he is a good QB evaluator. There are MANY scouts out there, focusing on many different positions, and they are wrong most of the time when it comes to QBs. In fact, on this video he mentioned he didn't have Watson in the FIRST ROUND when he came out. Now, I understand not having Brady high or some other obscure QB in a first round, who later became great, but not to have Watson there is borderline incompetent. Sure, this huge gaffe can be forgiven if there are other good QB hits, but what else do we know about the guy's QB scouting? To me this comes down to credibility. Hearing from former QBs QB teachers, such as Simms and Jenkins, who have good record in the past and watched the tape, carry a lot more weight than from a retired generalist scout.
and Sorry, but I disagree K'OB, I think what I said is totally relevant. My whole point is that I don't think that keeping Sam and trading down from #2 is a valid reason or option. It's not valid because most likely Sam is not going to suddenly be much better. Most likely, any improvement will be marginal. Expecting anything else is not realistic imo. Similarly, expecting to get a QB at the level of Lawrence or Wilson, and maybe even at the level of Fields, Lance, and Jones in next year's draft is not realistic imo, not only because there are few drafts where there are 6 QBs who are worthy of a 1st round pick, because looking at the QBs who are likely to be in that draft are more flawed/less talented, but also because we will be drafting much lower than #2. In addition, even if we could get a QB who is just as good a prospect as Wilson, it would probably be a net loss between the "haul" we get this year, and the "haul" we have to give up next year. The haul this year could be much smaller than what some fans anticipate because JD would only trade down so far. Next year, with fewer great QB prospects, the price to move up could be much higher, and probably would be. On top of that, there are said to be no blue chip Edge rushers in this draft, but it is thought that there will be 2-3 of them in next year's draft. By not taking a QB this year, we would have to use our draft capital to get a QB, and would be unable to get one of those Edge rushers. Taking a Wilson this year and a blue chip Edge prospect next year should make the team a LOT better than trading down, missing on a QB this year, taking what most likely would be a lesser Edge rusher this year, and a lesser QB next year, and then not having the draft picks to build around that QB would have the team in worse shape. It's almost like fans want the Jets to be bad and not succeed. TDK, you're right that trading the #2 pick doesn't mean that we have to keep Sam, either, so it least it would avoid that mistake, but it would still be making the mistake of passing on such a great prospect in Wilson. Trading from #2 to #8 and getting only the #8 pick, and a 1st and 2nd round pick next year is not what I'd call a haul. I don't think that would be such a great trade, and certainly not worth the risk of hoping that Fields or Lance would fix their issues and develop in a year or two, when Wilson could be good to go day one. To even entice me to think about passing on Wilson and trading down to #8, the Panthers would have to give me the #8, their 2nd and 3rd round picks this year, and their 1st and 2nd round picks next year, and even that is not worth missing out on a QB who probably will be a FQB, and could be a top 3-5 QB in the NFL.
Fuck me can nobody follow a conversation in this place? I never said what you put was irrelevant. That was a reply to the man who quoted me, the dark knight. Also, it doesn't matter that you don't think it is a valid option, you said 'I don't see one reason to keep him. Not one' I plain and simply gave you the only reason to keep him. (i am not advocating doing it either btw) That is the extent of the conversation, nothing else, don't go and complicate it like the dark knight has done lol
ROFLMAO! Holy shit, guy. So JD signing Joe Thuney, Trey Hendrickson or Carl Lawson, and one of Robinson, Godwin or Davis in FA wouldn't change the franchise? Right! None of the QBs "are put a franchise on my back moxie caliber QB to change the narrative"? LOL Whatever. Suffice it to say that I think that you're flat out wrong. I think all of Lawrence, Wilson, Fields and Lance, and maybe even Jones are those types of guys. Fields and Lance have some serious work to do, but they have the potential, if they fix those flaws, to be that kind of QB. Wilson already carried BYU this past season, and Fields did vs Clemson. You act like we don't have a ton of cap space, that there won't be a ton of quality FAs available and not a lot of teams will have the cap space to sign FAs, and don't have 8 other draft picks this year and 10 next year with which to build around the QB we take this year, and that doesn't even include what we might get for Sam in a trade and what additional pick(s) we might get if JD trades down this year and/or next. Our entire offense except Becton can be gone in 3 years? I disagree with that extreme. It does need more work than the D and it is true that most of the present players on offense will probably be replaced, but I believe that Mims will still be here, the players that JD adds in FA and the draft this year will be, McGovern probably will be, Crowder could be, Tyler Johnson could be, Clark could be, and Morgan could be. Between FA and the draft this year, the Jets could have as many as 6-7 new starters on offense. JD could sign Thuney or another FA OG, a FA WR, and either Jonnu Smith or a RT, and then draft Wilson, another OG, a RB, and another WR.
Sorry, but it wasn't clear. It obviously sounded like you were talking about my post. I disagree...It DOES matter. I know that you aren't advocating doing what that reason states. IMO if a reason for doing something isn't based in reality, rationality, and is a poor strategy, then it isn't valid or isn't a "good" reason. It may be a "reason", but it isn't a GOOD reason, and the thinking behind that reason is severely flawed.
If it was meant for you I would have quoted you, I guess that would be the first clue to somebody telling you what you said was irrelevant post #599 was a reply to TDK saying all of the stuff he brought into the conversation at that point was irrelevant to me saying that there was one reason to keep Sam, in fact, most of his post went off on a tangent. You said there is no reason to keep Sam but plainly there was one, it doesn't matter a fuck if you do or don't like that reason, it is still a valid reason and BTW who's reality, yours? Flawed? lol Just because you don't like it doesn't make it flawed or not a good reason, there are people on here that want to trade out of the #2 spot, it doesn't make them wrong just because you now want Wilson at #2 it just makes it a different opinion than your own but this is another conversation entirely. So really it doesn't really matter as I am not bothered, not one of us in this damned conversation wants to do that option, which again I made abundantly clear in the posts earlier on.
There a a few different ways to achieve the same goal. The objective is to try the find with the greatest odds of success. I've been involved in poker games where my opponent took an action that had terrible odds of winning, yet he got his one out to hit. That doesn't make it the smart choice. In fact I would want him to make the same choice every time.
Sorry, but I think this guy is 30 years behind the times. He said he wouldn't draft Fields until the bottom of the 2nd round, and wouldn't draft Lance until the 3rd round. LOL He has Mac Jones as a high 2nd rounder, and Wilson after him. Well, he'd never get within sniffing distance of any of those QBs if he were a GM. Even his friend and host, disagreed with him. . He lists as a negative that Zach Wilson only played three years, but doesn't mention that with Trevor Lawrence. He claims that Wilson doesn't throw with anticipation, well I have seen him throw with anticipation. He talks about the Jets not having players around him and ignores all the cap space and draft picks the Jets have. He doesn't mention Zach's vision, historic accuracy and ability to fit the ball into tight windows, yet he raves about Mac Jones' accuracy. He doesn't mention his ability to read Ds and great decision making and how he doesn't turn the ball over. He didn't mention his leadership, poise, his quick delivery, or ability to throw with touch. He mentions his ability to look off defenders in a dismissive way. He doesn't think he has an elite arm. He talks about his level of competition, yet ignores all the other great players that have become stars in the NFL who played at small schools. Eli Manning wasn't a scab on Wilson's ass as a QB, yet this guys blows Eli non-stop. The clincher was when he said that Darnold has a better arm than Wilson. He's full of shit. It's obvious to me that his thinking is old school, dated, and he should be retired. He claims that Trey Lance didn't win a national championship with NDSU. He most certainly did! He doesn't talk about Fields fundamentals/throwing motion.
By the same token, just because you do like it and think it is a reason doesn't make it one. We'll have to agree to disagree. You can use all the profanity you want, but that doesn't make you right.
Don't worry, @NCJetsfan! Your posts were not irrelevant. Apparently mine were! Thanks, @K'OB! I think we will have a lot to discuss up until Sam is traded or the Jets trade the #2 pick. Posters will give their reasons for keeping Sam and their reasons for trading Sam. I think many of us have come to the conclusion now that it is in the best interest of the Jets to move on from Sam Darnold and start anew with Zach Wilson. Some fans will think differently, and it is fun to discuss it with them. Ultimately, it will come down to what Joe Douglas decides.
Sorry. Frankly i dont care what a single one of these experts think. Hardly any of them have ever been actual talent evaluators w NFL teams. None of them are credible in my eyes & i pay very little attention to their insight. Just using an actual former talent evaluator to highlight the perpetual downplaying of any fragment of criticism for Wilson while simultaneously hanging on every word of what these supposed experts think when they happen to like Wilson. Thanks for proving my point. Yay rah rah Zack Wilson.John Elway,Pat Mahomes,Josh Allen & johnny U rolled into one!
