????? 45 catches, in his last season, a long of 69, and over 18YPC.... We traded him for a tougher guy.
Originally Posted by AlioTheFool His yards per reception is SEVERELY inflated by the work of his receivers. The Leon play last night is a perfect example. That's a huge play in Chad's stat log, but it was ALL Leon, and a couple of very good blocks. I believe that someone posted the YAC stat a week or so ago and the Jets were no where near the top of the list.
Of course they aren't. There have been a few plays where the WRs have actually had a chance to run with the ball after making the catch, like Coles in the first NE game but these plays are an abberation. Chad rarely hits a WR in stride on anything other then very short patterns(where there are plenty of defenders in the area to make a tackle). Any mid range pattern is going to be run towards the sideline because Chad can float it out there and not worry about it getting picked off. Also on anything mid range over the middle the WRs often have to leave their feet ot make the catch which also severely limits the YAC opportunities. The Jets are making the best of what they have on offense, but it is EXTREMELY limited which is why we see Pennington flounder against tough defenses.
That season Moss' 69 yarder came against the Cards. A game in which Chad did not even play. Then Santana went on next year to play with Brunell and put up 84 catched for 1483 yds and a long of 78 yds and 24 catches of 20 yds+. He also caught 9 TD's that year. Listen we can throw stats back and forth at each other all day - but you are not going to convice me that Chad equipped to use Moss(let alone any deep threat). It doesn't make Chad a bum to me - it's just a limitation that must be accepted while Chad is at the helm for us. Now if you were to give him a running game - there shouldn't be a doubt that would greatly improve Chad's overall game.
In college, as a sophomore QB, Chad had a pretty good deep threat named Moss (Randy). He hit him long and in stride often - like the first offensive play of the inaugral Motor City Bowl vrs Ole Miss - 80 yards total, ball traveled a long way and Moss took it in stride to the house. Two operations on your shoulder takes some time to recover from (I think he is the first QB to do so) and regain full strength. His arm strength is average to good when fully healed - perhaps less than average as is. The fact that we win with him as a starter regardless just shows how many of the intangibles of a great QB he brings to the table. Hopefully as he continues to strengthen his shoulder his only real weakness (lack of arm strenth) will fade. My feeling is that we surely wouldn't be 9-6 this year without him. We won with him at Miami - a team with a good pass defense (ask Brady).
I'm not bashing. Hell, I criticized Chad's play last night in a few posts. But it's beyond pathetic that after any win there's this black hole of negativity. If we won the SB somewhere out there a Jets fan would bitch about it.
The first thing you would hear would be - he can't do it again... it was all luck. We won despite him. Etc, etc... The truth is our team can win a SB with Chad at QB. It CAN happen. You do not need to have a QB that can carry the team on his arm, and even if you did have one of those QB's there is no guarantee they would win you a SB on their arm.
Well, I could win the lottery tomorrow too. That doesn't mean I'm going to base my life on that improbability happening.
Happy to win but I agree with some of the posts that Chad is going to get some of his receiveres killed one of these days. He is doing the most with his limited abilities. But let's face it, about 1/3 of the field is off limits to him because of his lack of arm strength. Again, I'm not bashing Chad but its not like we have the no name defense. God forbid if we get down by two touchdowns; there is no way he is coming back with his 5 yarders. In the playoffs smart teams are going to load 8 in the box and make him throw long. Even last night, the intereference play would't have happened if he put the ball where it was suppose to. I just think this run of the Jets is going to delay Clemens from starting next year, which IMO is the right thing to do.
As lame as these "arguments" that because the Jets are winning it's sacrilege to want to upgrade the QB position. The Jets have won games with Kevan Barlow and Cedric Houston as feature backs, and teams have won SBs with bad RBs so there's no need to upgrade that position either. Because hey, it's a possiblity the Jets could win a SB with them. The reasoning is flawed.
Pennington has dropped a couple real nice bombs down the sidelines the last few weeks. I do feel like some games they seem to be scared to attempt certain throws, but its hard to argue when hes having as much success as hes had despite virtually zero running game. Pennington's flaws, namely the fact that there are some throws that he simply cant rifle in there the way other quarterbacks can (also hes apparently way worse in the rain) are more than overshadowed by the things that he can do that nobody else but Peyton Manning can do. He creates more yards prior to the snap than most quarterbacks can create with their superior arm strength. And for all that his arm isnt fantastic, hes thrown some nice deep balls a couple times this year, and yesterday had a beautiful 32 yard touchdown... that throw was as perfect as they come. If the Jets can succeed in bringing in a big right guard or tackle who can pave the way for a more consistent rushing attack, this team could have one of the better offenses in the league next year. As I said in a post last night, imagine if Barlow's 20 carries last night had gone for 80 yards instead of 40, what a much better game we would have seen.
There's plenty of blame to give to Chad for some of his games this season, but last night certainly wasn't one of them. A weak-armed QB struggled in a monsoon-like condition. Wow! In the 4th quarter, when the conditions got better, he was great.
History has shown us that this post is very hard to argue with. Hey, its beating a dead horse, I know, but Ravens, Bucs and a decent amount of other teams have won superbowls with at best, average qb's. I will easily admit that at one point during the game last night, I thought about running to my computer and posting how disgusted I am with Chad and his arm. It was so obvious at times last night that having Chad at QB makes a DC's job much easier. There is only one problem with that theory. You cant build a heart. Teams with stubborn defenses for the most part...I repeat..for the most part, usually have offensive problems of their own. Welcome to the NFL. Would you rather swap rosters and have the Colts roster and coaching staff right now? Its so easy to say "hey..the offense is done..lets build the greatest defense in the NFL now" It just doesnt work that way. The Bears are a perfect example of a very good defense and a very inconsistent offense. What do you prefer, a great defense or a great offense. Would you rather have the Colts offense or the Bears defense going into the playoffs. I guess my point is this. Play the season out. Let see what type of QB maturity wise shows up to training camp next season in Clemens. Its a discussion worth having but its officially over as of yesterday. The final game means something and if we win...we are in with Chad. If we lose, we are probably out. EM has said all the right things. He has shown to be a pretty damn good judge of ability and character. Because he says Chad has been great doesnt mean he is an idiot and hasnt watched as one receiver after another faces death each week because of Chads "style". Of course you can win a superbowl with Chad. Just look at some of the starting qb's who have managed a superbowl game with a great defense there to protect them. The one thing you cant build is a dynasty..or having the potential to make the playoffs year in...year out..without a very solid qb. Chad has a heart of a lion....I will always give him that. He just will never put a team on his back and carry them. Any QB can put together a winning drive. The only thing that announcing crew had right last night was that if the Jets had fallen behind by more than a touchdown...the Jets were probably finished. That is never the case with good teams..and good QB's. Then you take a look at a team like the Dolphins..and the long search to replace Marino and you take a step back and say wait a minute. How many 7-9,8-8,9-7 teams are searching for their Brady. Personally, I dont think I can handle, mentally, another year of watching Chads floaters defy gravity in a negative way. Simply put, its just not the kind of QB I want leading my team. Now if he wins a superbowl.....
Well, lets make a comparison. In SB21 Simms went 22/25 268, winning the MVP. He had 3 long passes, 36,44,23 yds. The other 19 passes averaged out to 8.5 YPC. Last night Pennington hit for 65 (all run) 42,32 (all ball). Penny's other 11 completions averaged out to 7.8 YPC I think It's fair to say that the ability of Pennington to take it the distance, is well better than hitting the lotto... In that season Simms threw more to the other guys, than he did TD's and the teams leading receiver was the TE. That year the Giants had a Great D, and Great Running Game. And a So-So QB. You may disagree, but I think Pennington is a few notches above so-so...but opinions vary.
It isn't just about the deep ball. It's the lack of zip on the intermediate routes that really limits our offense and puts the recievers in danger.
This is what no one seems to want to understand. People aren't bashing Chad for a lack of bringing his leadership to the huddle, or his ability to throw a ball downfield. People are bashing his inability to do it in a way that doesn't put his WRs AT RISK. But it seems none of them will be satisfied until someone gets taken out of the active roster. And like I've said before, this isn't even a problem that can't be fixed. It's all mechanics being off, and I truly believe the point made about his confidence. Previous to the Jacksonville game, he played with overbearing confidence. He zipped the short passes in whenever necessary. Ever since then, he's floated balls, even behind the line of scrimmage. DBs eyes light up like a Christmas tree when a ball hangs. Even if the receiver is there to make the catch, the DB has enough time to adjust and send him to the ground hard. But what the sunshiners seem to be reading from posts like this is bolded below: It's hard to argue when your opponent doesn't bother to listen to your counterpoint.
Well said. We must be further reminded that he is winning without much of a running game at all. For a QB like Chad to really be effective, he needs a running game first. Chad might not be the future, but he is clearly the best for now. Some day Clemens will take the reigns, but give him time to learn this offense first.
