All I'm stating is that Manning did nothing either his 1st 3 years . The point of this whole argument is that if the Giants took the approach of booting Eli after 3 years the way the fans want to do with Sam, it's just inane. Fix the players and the coaching first. And just looking ahead, I surely don't believe that if the Jets do draft a QB at #1 they're going to entrust Gase with the task of grooming him. So that tells me that Gase should be booted first.
I see this argument all the time and I absolutely hate it. The list of QB's who sucked their first 3 years and were out of the league shortly after is way longer than the list of guys who sucked their first 3 years and turned out to be very good QB's. You're using exceptions to the rule to prove the rule. It makes no sense. The vast majority of guys who suck their first 3 years just suck.
The NFL was way different back then from contract structure to how the game was played. You were married to quarterbacks if you took them in the first draft. Eli (like his brother) was always in full control of the offense and despite the fact that he had accuracy concerns he always put the team in the right play to succeed by adjusting the play based on what the team gave him. The Giants were 3rd, 11th and 14th in points for in his first three full years starting. They had the 3rd, 14th and 16th ranked offenses in terms of total yards. This was also right before the league was transitioning the rules to take the cornerbacks hands off the receivers completely beyond the LOS and flagging pass interference every time a defensive back sneezes in the direction of a player. Completion percentages were much lower. If you want to include Eli's first starts you can - he was horrendous. A QB with those stats in 2020 probably doesn't even get another season as the starter (see; Haskins, Dwayne). But quarterbacks need to move the ball in the NFL now. The rules are much more in their favor. The entire tri-state area was calling for Eli's head in that fourth season and even before that year when the talented Giants missed the playoffs. Then he won a SB. That's not happening next year with the Jets to save his face here.
Giants next year will be an 6 - 8 win team. Jones is playing better than Darnold Coaching staffs are privy to a lot that we don't see. It could be they saw Eli getting better, and put the weapons he needed around him. I hated that they benched Kurt Warner, but it could be that they saw something in Eli that of course us fans cant. I cant tell if Gase is the problem or is Sam is the problem. But Gase does have to go. Hearing Joe Judge talk about his team after a loss is what I want from my coach. How did I end up a Jet fan? I think it was when I heard Ronnie Lott was missing a finger. He became my favorite player, and it's been Jets over Giants ever since. Damn you Ronnie Lott.
Christian Ponder, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, EJ Manuel, Johnny Manziel, Blake Bortles, Brandon Weeden, Tim Tebow, Paxton Lynch, etc. We can now add Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, RG3, Josh Rosen and on a remains to be seen note - Dwayne Haskins. That's in the past decade and isolated to only first round picks. Teams move on rather quickly. Denver opted to go with Trevor Siemien and Brock Osweiler over Lynch because he was that bad.
There's no way to compare the Jets and Giants roster, seriously? Your basing Eli's success with the players and coaches he had a round him .The Giants in their 4th year went to the SB. Are the Jets going in the direction with the players and the coaching staff? No way in h$ll. Based on Eli's stats the first 3 years he should done much better with the supporting cast. Darnold has nothing to work with here. Gase should be booted and the Jets should just get the players to support Sam. Not start another 5 year rebuilding plan.
He had some solid receivers to throw to over the years. Ike Hilliard, Amani Toomer, Jeremy Shockey, Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, Plaxico Burress, Hakeem Nicks... then Beckham. We need to pick up a reciever like a Braylon Edwards or Brandon Marshall... a solid veteran receiver looking for a second or third chance.
Would you like me to name some others? How about Vinny Testaverde? His time with the Bucs really hurt his career. He was about ready to take the Jets to a 2nd consecutive AFC championship if he hadn't blown his achilles. I can name more but the argument to me that Darnold's career is over at 23 is just plan ridiculous.
Of course the Jets roster is worse. The Giants were built well. But for the era, Eli wasn't that far away from 'breaking out,' and he engineered scoring drives which saved him his job early on. Before 2010 we had seven quarterbacks finish above 69% completion percentage or higher. Drew Brees, Sammy Baugh (1945), Ken Anderson (9 games), Joe Montana, Daunte Culpeper, Brian Griese, Troy Aikman, and Steve Young. Since then, we've seen it done 15 times including that mark being eclipsed by Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins and Ryan Tannehill. We have 12 guys over that mark this year alone right now. The game is much different than it was and trying to compare statistics across eras (even as closely as 14-16 years ago) is ignoring the progression of the game and how the CBA has changed along with the actual rules. Quarterbacks are no longer game managers like Eli was early on in his career. They have to be the whole damn franchise.
Sorry but I can't buy the 15 year era difference. But that's my opinion. The Giant teams of those eras would still win and do very well today. There isn't any sure argument of who's right or wrong because it's all based on assumptions. Like what will the future be for Darnold? I'm the glass half full guy.
I don't think I don't think anyone believes his career is over. But it's starting to look like he will not succeed here. Quarterbacks get extremely lucky to get a third coach and remain the starter after three sub-.500 years. Especially with the looming $25 million option. I think all anyone is saying is that hey - everything is a dumpster fire here but he has issues himself and is as much a part of the problem here has anyone else. Maybe a coach fixes him? Maybe his ceiling is Andy Dalton...
What can't you buy about it? There's now a rookie cap. The passing rules have changed a lot. Era matters. Eli's shitty completion percentage in a harder passing era isn't that different from Darnold's in a friendly passing era.
We can agree that Sam has got issues, but I think we have the wrong coaches right now to fix them, sad to say.
By the way - Vinny Testaverde is a bad example. He had two good seasons in his entire career. One with us with Tuna obviously a HOF coach. I loved Vinny as a kid. But he played 20 years in the league and really only has two good seasons to show for it.
I don't really care about anecdotal examples because the vast majority who are bad after 3 years are still just bad. You can give me 8 more examples and it still wouldn't be the majority of the cases.
Your best ability is your availability. Fitzpatrick, Geno and Sanchez don't have the talent as Sam but I seem to remember them being more durable.
I have a feeling it was Gase's idea to sit him. Gase is trying to save his job. He just needs the old Flacco back for one or two games to show the world, Sam is the problem.
He blew his tendon, the year the Jets would have made another playoff appearance with BP. After that BP was out. Sorry, but VT was a perfect example. Bill Parcels knew what to do to finally get his talent in sync. It's all about coaching. This is exactly why Sam has to be given the right direction as to why it makes all the difference.
It's a horrible example of any sort of success. There are a bunch of quarterbacks that have been one year wonders late in their career. And it's not at all what we want out of Sam. Do you want Sam to develop into Derek Anderson or Matt Ryan?
