Some interesting comments were posted in the Terry Bradway -[thread=16057]Click Me![/thread] I made the following comment regarding Herm: NYJUNC came back with an interesting response: Actually, Herm got the Jets to the playoffs in 3 of 5 years. But the thing I found interesting was that NYJUNC continues to maintain that the Jets got better during those 5 years during Herm. Now in Jets history, "getting better" is all relative given our history...so a .500 coach may actually be considered an improvement after the likes of Walton, Coslet and Kotite. It is my belief that Herm's teams under-achieved and that Herm is nothing but a mediocre coach. I believe it because the facts don't lie over time. Herm now has a nice 5 year track to look at...80 games with the Jets and now in year 6, 14 games with the Chiefs. So I decided to do so fact checking to see what I could find about Herm as a coach with the Jets and now the Chiefs. Here is what I found: I pulled the following regular season stats for Herm's teams to include w/l; turnover differential; league wide team rankings for offensive yards per game; offensive pts per game; defensive yards per game; and defensive points per game. I used the league wide rankings because they show the teams position relative to the 31 other teams in the league...and that is more important than the actual yds or pts each year. Jets 2001 ~ 10-6 TO +18 Off ypg - 23 Off pts/g - 17 Def ypg - 19 Def pts/g - 12 Jets 2002 ~ 9-7 TO +4 Off ypg - 22 Off pts/g - 15 Def ypg - 24 Def pts/g - 14 Jets 2003 ~ 6-10 TO 0 Off ypg - 19 Off pts/g - 15 Def ypg - 21 Def pts/g - 8 Jets 2004 ~ 10-6 TO +17 Off ypg - 12 Off pts/g - 17 Def ypg - 7 Def pts/g - 4 Jets 2005 ~ 4-12 TO -10 Off ypg - 31 Off pts/g - 29 Def ypg - 12 Def pts/g - 23 If one compiles Herm's Jets coaching career (reg. Season only), his record as HC of NYJ is 39-41 and the team's cumultive turnover margin in those 5 seasons is +29. If one breaks out those stats for a 5 year average, we get the following results: Record ~ 7.8-8.2 TO +5.8 per/y Off ypg - 21.4 Off pts/g - 18.6 Def ypg - 16.6 Def pts/g - 12.2 What does this all mean? Well I see the stats of a team coached by a coach who is mediocre at best. Definately neither the best or worst team in the league. Given that we have a good 5 year track record, anyone want to take a stab at how Herm's 2006 Chiefs match up to Herms 5 year record? Well here is what we have so far through 14 games: Chiefs 2006 ~ 7-7 TO +2 Off ypg - 17 Off pts/g - 16 Def ypg - 16 Def pts/g - 11 No suprise here...isn't it amazing how the stats never lie? Herm's record is 7-7...right on track with his career average. Turnover ratio is +2....with 2 games to play, slightly below the 5.8 avg. Off ypg is 17...5 spots ahead of his 21.4 average Off pts/g - 16...almost 3 spots ahead of his 18.6 average Def ypg is 16...spot on with his 16.6 average Def pts/g 11...slightly above the 12.2 average Incidently, the 2005 KC Chiefs were 10-6 with the following breakdown: TO +7 Off ypg - 1 Off pts/g - 6 Def ypg - 25 Def pts/g - 16 And the excuse that Herm's Chiefs have suffered because of an injury to Trent Green??? That is BS. Damon Huard was 5-4 in the first nine games of the year (Green was injured in week 1). Green won his first two starts to bring the Chiefs to 7-4 before losing his next 3. More importantly, they have 4 players on offense going to the Pro Bowl (a RB, TE and 2 guards). There is no reason this offense should be where it is...until you factor in Herm. The fact that Herm's career averages match so perfectly with KC's current perfomance shouldn't be a suprise to anyone. He is what he is...mediocre .500 coach who does less with more.
I have been watching the KCC games this season & see no difference in Herms coaching there then here. What is different Herm is beginning to get flak from his players where in NY he did not get any
His 14 games w/ the Chiefs ahs nothing to do w/ us. We missed the playoffs in '99 and '00 and made it in '01 and '02 w/ him. he took over a team in decline, a team that THREE coaches despertae to win walked out on. if we had such incredible talent then why did 3 HC's walk out on us in the span of a year? and why aren't we 10-4 right now instead of 8-6? w/ all the talent Herm had this is now healthy(unlike a year ago) we should be cruising to a div title, right? The facts are we made the postseason 3 times in 5 years and the 2 years we missed we lost our starting QB. Herm has led us to more postseasons than any HC in NYJ history, he has 1 AFC East Title which is half the amount we have in team history. Pre-Herm we made 8 postseasons in 40 years(20%) while we made it 3 in 5(60%) under him. In 5 years we almost ahd half the amount we had in 40 years. ONCE AGAIN I have never proclaimed Herm to be a top flight NFL HC but he is a good one and did alot of good things here. Some of us appreciate it and some do not. I really don't care about Herm anymore, I want to beat Miami and make the playoffs again this year.
There's no need for spin, the facts are what they are. YOU guys spin away all his succss, i guive you facts.
Nope sorry, you can't just chuck the baby out with the bathwater like that. There is something to what K73 is saying, it can't just be a coincidence that Herm's statistical rankings in so many categories seem to match up so closely to what he produced for us. You may say this, but actions speak more than words. You've been riding Mangini all year long for any perceived fault you could find, in a way you never would have done with Herm. Deny it all you want, I'm not the only one who holds this perception.
Actually, to me, your stats show that the Jets weren't a very talented team during those 5 years. So how did we reach 9 and 10 wins? A good conservative game plan that hid our weaknesses. Discipline. Keep the penalties down and the turnovers to minimum. Herm may not have been great, but he hardly dragged us down. As for KC... Its not Trent Green's injury that has hampered KC. The fact is that the o-line is a shadow of its former self. When you have Kyle Turley (version 2006) as your LT (actually he's been hurt so its actually his back-up, ouch), going 7-4 was a miracle. We don't known what Herm could do with a good team, because he hasn't had one to coach.
Wrong again I pay for 2 DTV converters giving me the ability to watch the NYJs on one TV & any other game I choose on the other TV
He's done a very good job in KC this year. They lost 2 starting OL, they lost their AP FB, they lost their OC and they lost their QB to injury. The D has improvedbut they played a much tougher sched than we faced and only have 1 loss against a team they should have beaten and that was at Cle. He's done a ood job there. You guys always remember me backin Herm(in large part b/c I had to stopt he irrational bashing) but don't remember when I criticized him and I criticized him alot but overall he did alot more good than bad. Mangini has done a very good job this year as well but the biggest reasonwe are good again is b/c #10 is healthy. I love Mangini and I am happy we have him, I thought Herm wore out his welcome w/ what he did to leave so I would not trade back but mangini did cost us 2 chances to win games w/ idiotic decisions and maybe a 3rd when he wasn't daring where he should have been.
Good Coaches MAKE good teams. He had time to do it here. And he failed. Mangini is doing more with less than Herm ever had.
The Jets were 4-12 last year with Herm. They are 8-6 now. That is a 4 game improvement with 2 to play. You tell me what Herm's record would be with the team this year? I know it wouldn't be 8-6 given the turnover in player personnel and change in off/def philosphies. Funny how the Chiefs were 10-6 last year with a top ranked offense without Herm. This year they are 7-7, out of the playoffs, with basically the same offense performing below expectations. Only difference? You guessed it, Herm Edwards. The real question is why the Chiefs aren't better. They are supposed to have a better defense this year with Herm...they should be kicking ass, but they aren't. I know, but you don't want to talk about the Chiefs cause they have nothing to do with the Jets. For someone who doesnt care, you where pretty quick to respond.
Here come NY Junc "man" love for Herm again. From what I am reading he is in trouble out there & his players have complained directly to the press about his game planning & play calling, Sounds to me like a HC that has lost the team
One note about Herm and the Chiefs: he took over a team that lost it's starting QB and has an offensive line which is a shadow of its former self. Plus, they have one of the most difficult schedules in the NFL. Don't judge his tenure there by his first season.
i think we'd be 8-6 or 9-5 w/ Herm, we'd have around the same record. We were 4-12 last year b/c we played 5 QBs, lost a HOF RB, lost our starting TE, lost our C and LT, had only 1 Ol start and end the year in the same position(Moore), lost a PB DE, lost a PB caliber DT, lost our best defnesive player from '04(Barton), lost our best STs player(McClover). That's why we were 4-12. The Chiefs have basically the same offense? Is Willie Roaf still there? they lost Roaf and another starting Ol from the bst Ol in the NFL, they lost their AP FB, their OC and their NB for over half the year. The Chiefs haven't won a playoff game since 1993 and have been to the playoffs ONCE('03) since 1998. he didn't take over a great program.
Good players make good teams. This years team is one of the talented we've had in a decade. The difference this year has been Chad staying healthy.
