the other crazy thing regarding o-line rebuild is that tons of quality interior o-line candidates are picked in rounds 2-4 where we have picked none and instead reached for FQB or WRs, many of which are out of the league I don't know enough about Gase but I hope his game plan includes lots of quick releases. Even if we land a bunch of new O-line talent to protect Sam and to open lanes for Bell, they will need time to gel as a unit
yeah that is the tough part that we had so many busts in rounds 2-4 this year there are a lot of good interior lineman to pick in round 3 and good Cbs for round 3 so hopefully we get 2 lineman and a CB with our 2 3rds and a 4th
agreed. the point was that Macc is looking for love in all the wrong places. He should know his limits. He's not good enough to find a FQB in rounds 2 or 4. And he's shown no penchant for finding skill positions in round 2-4 . Those are the rounds he should have been picking guards and centers. Likewise one can debate whether he should have been using #6 picks for DL (in a 3-4 -- why not get Snacks 2.0 late just clogging space) and for safeties. I like Leo and Adams. I just things Macc's priorities are out of whack
he got our FQB though eventually. taking a flyer in the 2nd round isn't a bad thing. just sucks that hack was so bad. lots of good NFL QBs have come outside of the 1st round so never hurts to take a chance. He's also had good picks in rounds 2-4 as well. maye is a great safety (PFF ranks him 9th best safety in the NFL) they also rank adams 2nd best so he got us 2 top 10 safeties in back to back picks in the draft. Jenkins was a steal in the 3rd round and has outperformed 1st roudner beasley taken the year after jet fans complained we should have gotten. He got herndon in the 4th who nfl.com during their draft redo had him selected in the 1st round. he also got shell our starting RT in the 5th round and found robby as an UDFA. He's had some good picks in those rounds as well but fans only focus on the bad. not to mention he hasn't missed on a 1st rounder. how many GMs id we have whiffing on every 1st rounder before? milliner, gholston, robertson, pryor, keller etc. sometimes you have to play your board. everyone has a different draft philosophy and there isn't 1 right way to do it. you may look and say i don't need a WR bu that guy should have went in the 2nd round and here we are in round 3 and that's a steal, or i can reach for that O-lineman who is a 4th rounder at best. Last time we took an OG in the 2nd round, he was also a bust (ducasse)
You know you make some good points, and it all adds up to "Macc ain't so bad", but...he is. Look at his record. I don't care how you slice and dice it or justify it, he has to measured on how much top talent he's landed through all avenues over his time here. To me, he's sitting at a "C", maybe a "C-", and really needs to nail this draft to keep his job. By "nail", I mean 4 of the 6 picks MUST be starters within 2 years, and the other 2 picks need to make the team as backups and situational players. Yes, that's asking a lot, but he's brought it on himself by not doing better up until now.
You're wrong that nobody was asking for Mahomes. Colorado, legler and I all loved Mahomes and wanted him, and I think that there were one or two more. I knew that Mac wouldn't draft him because he supposedly loved Hack and had just taken him in the 2nd round the year before, but I wanted Mac to prove me wrong. I love Adams, he was my 2nd choice in that draft. I also love Sam Darnold, but if I had the chance to change history right now, go back and totally re-do the last 2 offseasons and drafts, the team would look very different. To some extent I have and do give Mac credit for taking those BPAs that other GMs passed on, but not where it concerns the DL. IMO that's where Mac should have traded down for more picks if he could find a taker, not taken Leon Williams, and tried to fix several holes. If he had more success in other rounds, I and others would be more likely to give him credit for not passing on those BPAs, but when overall, he has missed so badly so many times in other rounds, it's hard to give him any credit. One other correction...not every 1st round pick of Mac has been great. Darren Lee is not great. That may be the only time that Mac didn't take the BPA.
I'd have to disagree there. If we assume a C is average mac is easily at least a B or B+ go back and look at every GMs picks and acquisitions over the past 3-4 years and compare them with mac. he's better then most which means by definition above average. Not saying he's the best out there but he's still a lot better ten what most of the other teams have. It's funny because i have a couple of friends that are stealer fans who bitch about their GM. The steelers are interesting and (i didn't know this before they said it) They signed CB steve nelson to a 3 year 25.5 million dollar contract this off season. it's the biggest free agent signing pitt has ever had. think about how insane that is. That goes to show how well overall they drafted. with that said, every CB they draft is a bust. their GM doens't know how to draft CBs and that is what he was bitching about meanwhile jets have had pretty good luck with CBs. Steelers however sure know how to draft WRs
Prior to the draft some people wanted him but during the draft when we were up at 6 eveyrone wanted adams (i went back and looked at the thread) nobody was calling for mahomes to be the pick. Any team can look back at what they could have done better, it's the nature of hindsight. There is also no guarentee mahomes would be as good as a jet as he is now. He's got andy ried as a coach, he's got a top 3 TE in kelce, an elite WR in hill, he had a top RB in hunt (led the NFL rushing as a rookie and 2 time pro bowler) and a really good o-line. He also has a shitty defense so he has more opportunities to put up stats as well. Not to take away from mahomes, he looks amazing on tape, just saying every situation is different. Darron lee i've went over so many times lol. go look at all the players picked in the 1st round after lee. I did a whole analysis on it. Lee was by and far the best player for us to take. he's had the best career by far. Even in hindsight the only case that could be made would maybe at best be will fuller who is an injury prone 1 trick pony WR2 playing opposite a top 3 WR in the NFL. Lee is better and absolutely was the best player we could have realistically taken there. Just because you dislike lee doens't mean it was a bad pick. it was a great pick. He also was BPA for most, many didn't think he would be available when the jets picked. just because you dislike lee doens't mean he sucks.
Just because you didn't see anything in the draft thread doesn't mean anything. Not everyone posted in the draft thread, and those of us who were resigned to the fact that Mac wasn't going to take Mahomes, why say anything? We already had. Then after Mahomes was taken in the draft by KC, there was no need to keep rehashing it. The point isn't that Mahomes would be as good now if he had been drafted by the Jets as he is having been drafted by the Chiefs. That's irrelevant. He still would have the talent. If Gase can develop Sam, he could develop Mahomes. The only two negatives to the Jets having taken Mahomes would be that we wouldn't have Adams, and Mahomes might have been good enough that he could have saved Bowles and Bates' jobs.
I'm just saying when the pcik is there every wanted adams. it's easy to make a pick with 0 stakes on the line on a forum then to be the guy who passed up on the next troy palamalu to reach for a QB. plus even the experts felt that QB class was weaker then the one the following year so why not wait a season and grab adams? every pick is always a risk and has their pro's and cons. and yeah it's also possible that mahomes would have saved bowles job which would have a lot of people here unhappy. that is the issue with the what if's. would you rather have bowles and mahomes? or darnold, gase, and adams?
I know what you're saying, but my point is that what you're saying isn't accurate. I would rather have had Mahomes and taken my chances with Bowles still getting fired, but that's not what we have, so we just have to hope that Darnold, Gase and Adams will be what we need to get to where we want to be.
i get rather wanting to have mahomes obviously but i'm sure 30 other teams would have preferred to get him as well. the bears took trubisky and sure trubisky is turning into a really good QB, but he's not mahomes. we didn't even take a QB that year. shit happens. no Gm will ever have a "perfect" draft it's an unrealistic expectation. You are literally saying mac sucks for picking a pro bowl, all pro top 2 at his position in the NFL in year 2 already simple because that position wasn't QB. Not only that but who's to say mahomes is better then darnold? what if 5 years from now darnold is the defacto top QB in the NFL and mahomes is "just a top 5 guy" you don't know how it will all pan out. I'm very happy with the QB we got and with mac's drafting overall. a few bad picks in the middle rounds doens't change that. even the best hitters in baseball get out 7 out of 10 times. everythng is relative. Mac's job as a GM is better then many other teams. would you rather have MT? idzik? how about gettlemen who ruined the giants. i mean he passed on sam for a RB but to be fair that RB is a top 3 RB as a rookie in the NFL already. but he also traded away a top 3 WR and let a top 5 safety walk in FA and is sticking with an old and ineffective QB. people won't appreciate mac until he gets fired and his replacement is much worse and then we will hear the ?mac was way better and we shouldn't have fired him" threads. ever GM has passed on a stud QB and every NFL GM has whiffed in rounds 2-4 before
No, I'm not and you're being ridiculous with your stretches, your insinuations, and strawman arguments. I'm done here.
there is no strawman argument lol you argument consists of "he could have done this better" well no shit same could be said of every team in every draft ever. it's a very weak point to make when it can be used on anyone. it's an unrealistic standard. The fact that he still picked an elite player is the important part. you would have had a case if he drafted a bust but he didn't. for all intents and purposes adams is the best player (career wise so far) in that draft. and that includes mahomes currently
Whatever. I should have known that you haven't grown or changed any looking at your analysis of last year's draft picks.
lol i think out of the 2 of us, i'm not the 1 that needs to change. let me show you you: mac sucks me: if you look at the overall drafts and compare it to other GMs he is above average you: but we could have had mahomes! me: you can say that about every GM that they could have had someone else you: ad hominem attack
Ad hominen attack? Not hardly. Sorry you took it that way. I was just trying to point out that I haven't seen much change in the way you look at or analyze things, that we see things very differently, and there's no point continuing going back and forth on things like this because we'll never agree and it will just lead to frustration. We agree on some things, and I think we should stick to those, and stay away from lengthy discussions.
do you know what ad hominen is? here let me show you. I'm more then happy to have a friendly debate where we don't see eye to eye, but lets leave the ad hominen attacks out because honestly once you resort to that you basically lose all credibility. They are 99.9999% of time used because you have nothing intelligent to debate or any counter points and the other .00001% out of pure rage. it's the childhood equivalent of going "oh yeah, well your mom is fat" To get back on topic you mean using logic and stats over emotion and anecdotal evidence? if you have anything to show me to prove your point i'm more then willing to look it over but everything i seen shows mac as an above average GM and an above aevrage drafter when compared with the 31 GMs in the NFL and much better then the past 3-4 jets GMs as well. I get why you feel like you do. jet fans are tired of sucking. the jets have sucked for damn near 50 years. I'm pushing 40 and never seen the jets win a SB lol there are people here in their 50s and 60s. they are tired of losing and impatient and irrational. i understand feeling that way but i'll never personally think that way. and what is wrong with that? isn't that the point of a forum? to discuss stuff with people who share a common interest (in this case football and the jets) not everyone will see things the same. I don't see why this is an issue the point is to have a discussion lol it's literally the entire point of a forum. and sometimes you get new information that changes your stance. i know i do. i never get frustrated. if you get frustrated and lash out at me for not agreeing with everything you say, your gonna have a bad time in general. lots of people disagree especially on the internet. and there is nothing wrong with that. there is no reason people can't disagree civilly nor any reason to get frustrated over what some random stranger on a forum thinks.
