Kirk Cousins Mega Thread. Post all your thoughts under this thread.

Their defense was not great. Actually, it looked like it quit after the offense couldn't pull its weight. Also, we do not know why the franchise tag was used versus a long term deal. Could be Kirk not wanting to be on the redskins, could be the redskins not wanting to overpay. Can be a bunch of diff factors. One thing is for sure, Redskins will not be franchising him for 34.5 mil

 

It does not matter who set the market, what matters is agents for QB's will use that as leverage to get better deals for their clients. QB's are the most important position on a team and as such will make the most money. I would support a move for Luck but Indy giving up on a talent like that would mean to me that his shoulder is not healthy.

Indy picks 3rd in the draft so that situation will be interesting. Likely one of the factors that made Josh McDaniels sign there.

 

I think you've laid out the argument for going with Cousins. Even though I don't really want to, under the CURRENT circumstances, this probably makes the most sense.

1. We have a HC and CS that haven;t shown themselves capable of developing a QB.
2. We have the #6 pick where - at best - there are only 3 top QBs and likely 3 teams ahead of us, not counting teams that would trade up ahead of us, who want a QB. It will take prime draft picks for us to move up even if there was a team willing to trade down with us and I think that's not likely.
3. Two teams with backup QBs who probably aren't as good as Cousins went to the Conference Championship games. Of course they also had MUCH better talent on both sides of the ball than the Jets, but if the Jets use the picks they save by signing Cousins, they can make significant progress towards upgrading the talent, not to mention they would still have a lot of cap space to add talent.

I really would love to see the Jets build a dynasty from the ground up to wipe the memory of all those empty decades away, but I don't think that Macc and Bowles are the ones that can do that, and if they can become a SB contender in the meantime, I'll "settle" for that.

 

Those are pretty much my reasons behind it. I would love to draft a QB have him play for the jets for 15 seasons and us win a ton of SB's but Maccagnan has not shown an ability to accurately assess college QB's and their abilities to transition to the pro game. Furthermore, just as you mentioned with teams making the champ games without elite QB's but stacked rosters, the Jets could do the same by not having an Elite QB, but a very good one (Cousins) but addressing other holes on the team like EDGE, corner, O-line and become a powerhouse. We can win with Cousins, even if it doesn't follow the traditional trajectory of teams drafting their own QB.

 

Yes, he's better than any QB the Jets have had in years, but is that really saying anything with the QBs we've had? IMO it isn't.

It could work out, but how often do things like that work out for the Jets? I think the chances of that working out would be pretty slim. Knowing our luck, Cousins play would have deteriorated during the offseason and he'll be only marginally better than McCown, or he'll suffer a career-ending injury in his first season with the Jets and they'll be on the hook for his salary for the life of the contract. Even if he stays healthy, but his play has declined, and Bowles gets fired, what quality HC or OC candidate is going to want to come here knowing that he's stuck with Cousins for the next 3-5 years and having to pay him a ton of money?

It would mean that they'd pass on Allen, but would also mean that they'd pass on Rosen or Mayfield if they fell to #6. It would also mean that they would not be drafting a QB high for at least the next 3 years, and maybe 4 or 5 depending upon the length of Cousins' contract.

Also, what if Cousins comes in an plays well? That would probably mean that it would be just good enough for Bowles to keep his job, and he might even get another extension.

 

If Cousins takes us to the playoffs and wins its worth Bowles being HC. The only way Bowles will look like a good HC is if the QB can mask him and that's what we should all hope for in this situation.

Also to the bold part of your question, how often does it work out for the jets where we select a rookie QB and have him become the franchise QB?

Answer - Hasn't happened in a very very very long time.

I would love to follow the traditional approach of drafting a QB and having him win a bunch of SB's and play for us for 15 years but Macc has not shown the ability to pinpoint a QB that can make the pro-transition and be a FQB.

At this point, I'm ready to win, no matter how unconventional the approach is.

 

Mac may not be good enough to accurately assess draft QBs and may swing and miss in the draft. If so, that would mean that he would most likely be fired, as would Bowles. If Mac is truly that bad at judging talent, that would be a win as far as I'm concerned. The rookie QBs contract wouldn't cost that much, and the new GM could always take another QB in the 2019 or 2020 draft.

I'd rather see Josh McCown back at QB and the Jets at least take a chance on a young QB, than see Cousins. I'd also rather see McCown back at QB and see Bowles get fired (taking Rodgers with him), than see Cousins at QB and see Bowles getting extended again because the Jets finish at 8-8 or 9-7.

If we address edge rusher, CB and O-line and the team is more formidable, the chances that we will be able to draft high enough to get a young FQB are practically nil. We'd be stuck on the JAG QB merry go round for another decade. No thanks. That's the backwards way to rebuild a team. You get the QB, build the offense and team around him, then add the other pieces while he's developing/learning and getting experience.

Yes, we're picking 6th, but the chances of being able to trade up or getting a QB there are infinitely better than they would be if we're drafting 15 or 20 or 24 in the draft.

I will never be convinced that signing Cousins is the way to go. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

I can't mount a full-throated argument against your points here other than to say a lot of them are based upon years of disappointment from your rooting for this team, and I share that pessimism. But I really don't see Rosen or Mayfield falling to 6, and so getting one of them will require a lot to move up, if that's even possible. I REALLY want Rosen to be a Jet and signing Cousins would preclude that happening, but I just don't see Rosen falling to them.

As for them not drafting a QB after signing Cousins, I don't think that will prevent them from doing that, especially if he proves he's not up to the level they paid him to be. And they may even take a chance on a late round QB this year if one they like is there - a Tom Brady Redux.

I don't think a quality HC candidate would really care who was the QB. They's either have a belief they could "fix" him, or find another one.

But if it helps, I also don't see Cousins signing with the Jets.

 

Well, that's something at least, but would the situation be akin to the O'Donnell situation? I don't think O'Donnell cost all that much, either, but his play sure did suck on the Jets.

 

What I bolded is the best reason for passing on Cousins - or ANY of the FA QBs. And I can't say I would be upset if they went "all in" this draft in finding our FQB.

 

Just making the playoffs isn't good enough, and would not make it worth Bowles being HC to me. I want to get to and win a SB. Anything less than that is failure.

How often have the Jets taken a QB in the 1st round? Sanchez is the only one since Nagle. That's too small a sample size. IMO the odds would be better of that young QB working out or being a more attractive option for a new HC and OC than Cousins would be at 29.

 

And there's the aspect of Foles making them just good enough to land in draft purgatory but not good enough to get to the SB, and regardless of how "cheap" his contract is it's not worth it.

 

Round of selection doesn't matter as there have been countless FQB's who have been great being later round picks. Jets have not been great, and I maintain Macc has not been great in evaluating QB's.

Like you said in your previous response, we'll agree to disagree.

 

Even if Cousins doesn't play well, with what the Jets will be paying him, he WILL be the starter until they can cut him without a huge cap hit, and that would probably be at least 2-3 years down the road if it is a 4-year contract, and could be longer. Drafting a QB in the 1st round and having him sit on the bench would be a waste. You know as well as I that the odds against a late round QB panning out are astronomical.

Also, as I pointed out to grkmanga, if the Jets add Barkley, fix the OL and get an edge rusher, they will be drafting down in the teens if not 20s if Cousins plays well at all. Their chances of getting a FQB from there or trading up to get one would be absolutely nil. No thanks.

 

that's not quite how it works.
every time a FQB is due for a contract you have to figure they get what the previous top QBs were making (pretty much use the FQB tag number) plus inflation. it works the same for every position it keeps going up 10% or more a year just like the NFL cap.

for instance the cap in 2011 was 120million (2010 was uncapped due to CBA so that's why i chose 2011)
cap for 2018 is estimated to be 178 million so the cap has gone up roughly 33%
in 2011 and 2012 i couldn't find a big QB contract so lets use 2013 where the cap was 123 million so still roughly 31%

in 2013 the largest contract was aaron rodgers at 22mil per season if you add 31% that's 28.82 million
ryan was the 2nd largest at 20.75 so add 31% 27.19 mil

So QB salaries are as they should be.

in 2017 stafford got 27 million a year carr got 25. the cap was 167 mil. the cap has gone up about 6% for 2018 so in 2018 you'd assume a contract of 28.62 to 26.50 for a "FQB"

These numbers arne't arbitrary or pulled out of asses. GMs know what they are doing. we set the market as it's revenue that decides that cap. The more popular the NFL is and more money it makes, the more the cap goes up and more the players make.

As it stands now, market value for cousins is around 28mil per season

 

What vet QB do you want to sign over Cousins that would allow us to be more competitive whilst fixing other holes?

Cousins is the best FA QB this offseason and it's not even close in my eyes. Alex Smith is limited, Teddy B may never be the same, Brees will be back in NO.

Cousins is the best option out of the bunch.

And also, what QB are you drafting at 6 if Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield are gone? Are you going for Allen who has a sub 60% completion percentage whilst also having horrible footwork, or Jackson, who many question as being a purely college QB?

The draft is a crapshoot and trading up will be way more expensive in draft picks than it would be paying Cousins 28 mil for a few years.

Also, again we have the cap space to create a flexible deal for cousins that allows Jets to get out of the contract if need be.

 

Well I hate to sound like Billy Martin the old Miller Lite commercial, but "I feel very strongly both ways"

I will say I'm not as doubtful as you about Cousins working out. If they do get Barkley, a stud pass rusher, and upgrading the OL via FA and draft, I think they could actually contend for a SB this year or next. That's being optimistic, but not wildly so.

 

I totally disagree with the bolded statement. Stats show that isn't true. The odds of finding a FQB in the 1st round are much greater than they are for the 2nd round, and the chances go down with each successive round.

I can understand why you and others would want Cousins, and I respect that, but that's not where I am. We don't have to agree. That's what makes the world go round.