And yet every post is about how it is absolutely crucial that the Jets get the #1 overall pick so they can evaluate, draft, and develop a QB messiah...... This board needs some of Erin Henderson's meds.
Well if we don't select a QB high, I don't think Jets have the scouting ability to pick out a prospect late as a legitimate building block. Rosen and Darnold are in a tier of their own versus the others and that's why myself and others think it is necessary to have a top 2-3 pick to secure one or the other. Also drafting a QB high also assumed that there is coaching changes made because I personally don't believe Bowles has the ability to develop a young QB.
I bolded the eternal problem that the Jets need to fix. I can see why everyone is so excited about the prospect of shortcutting this fix by simply bringing in a consensus #1 pick QB, but the truth is that that will only mask the problem. Until the Jets learn how to properly scout prospects and then to properly develop players, they will continue to be the SOJs. A messianic QB prospect won't change that, at best he can mask it for a few years.
So sorry, I didn't realize that you're unable to infer meaning and need things to be spelled out. So, let me try, once again, this time supplying the assumptions and inferences that I neglected in my original response: YOU: You really think the Browns would draft another QB that high with Kizer looking not so bad atm? ME: (Based on the assumption that Kizer has not yet proven to be their FQB) Absolutely! If they strike gold, they trade Kizer for more draft picks. So, would Cleveland consider drafting another QB IF they have decided that Kizer is not their FQB? ABSOLUTELY they would CONSIDER doing that. Trading Kizer is based upon the assumption that he didn't fulfill their FQB hopes this season. Hope that clears things up for you.
You make a valid point, but I also think when you're able to select one of the two better prospects, it makes the job of building a contender that much easier. The other part of it is getting the coaching necessary to build that talent up, and surround the QB with talent as well.Some of that will need to be addressed through free agency, which we can do. But like you said, until we figure out how to evaluate college ball players, we will in essence be stuck in a position where playoffs are a dream. Jets can quickly turn it around but they need to make the right personnel decisions and the right drafting decisions.
In order to fix the problem you bolded will likely require the firing and replacement of Macc and Bowles, which is not at all assured right now. Failing that, we can only hope that the Jets get the #1 pick which allows them to take the consensus #1 QB. Of course, if Macc is still the GM, there's a the real danger that he'll draft BPA-D instead, but we can only sit helplessly by and watch. As for having the right coaching, if Bowles is still the HC, we who want the #1 QB taken, are hoping that Darnold/Rosen are SO good that they can overcome the lack of coaching they'll get from Bowles. Neither of these hopes are worth much, but it's all we really have.
I can use the Charges as an example several ways here-- 1. Ryan Leaf --even having a top draft pick doesn't mean squat if you can't scout. 2. Philip Rivers and Dan Fouts --even having a FQB, actually, in both cases, even having a FQB with HOF-caliber weapons and HOF-caliber coaching doesn't get you a ring if you can't put together a whole team. (Rivers: Tomlinson, Gates, Schottenheimer; Fouts: Joiner, Winslow, Jefferson, Coryell, and OC Bill Walsh) 3. Drew Brees --This is obviously an oversimplification, but it says something that the Chargers were enamored by the promise of a prospect and let go of a great player that they already had on the roster--note that Brees has a ring, and Rivers doesn't. You could muddy the waters even more and point out that the Chargers drafted not only Brees, but also Eli Manning. Which is to say they've drafted a lot of Super Bowl wins at the QB position, but have nothing to show for it. If you want to win, you have to SCOUT, and DEVELOP, a WHOLE TEAM. The Jets currently appear to be able to draft defensive talent, then let if fall apart.
I look at the situation and say, "What's the point of worrying about the coaching, the defensive base alignment, the QB, draft position, or anything else that can't change the culture of this team?" I don't know whether Mac is the right GM or not, but I think the scouting department should be demolished and started anew with the very best scouting personnel money can buy--which means nobody that has ever worked for the Jets. When you start having drafts that bring you 4-5 players every year, instead of 0-2 like we've been having, then you need to put the right folks in place to develop and make use of those players. Jets fans always want the shortcut, though. I get it, I'm tired, too. I don't want to settle for a 1-and-done Super Bowl, though. I want a real team that's built to last, one that has a shot at the SB every year. The Steelers and Broncos have shown that a team can do that even beyond a single QB.
Someone check me on this but I believe 2016 was the first draft Maccagnan had with his scouting team. The Bradway team handled the 2015 draft because of time constraints with preparation. I'm not disagreeing with the points that the Jets scouting team needs to hit gold with selections made in rounds 1-3. *I qualify "hitting gold" by selecting players who make the roster, contribute immediately, and have sustained production through their rookie contract.
I completely agree with you! I don't want to settle for just making the playoffs, or "being competitive", whatever that means. Which is why I'm ready to pull the plug on Macc and Bowles because I just don't see the ability to deliver what we say we both want: long term championship-level ability. I just don't think that Woody/Christopher are going to fire Macc & Bowles, unless this season really does end as badly as some think. IMO I see them winning 4-6 games which will be enough to allow Macc & Bowles to continue.
You're right, Andrew Luck is going through that right now as well. FQB can only take a team so far, as Football is the ultimate team sport. Assuming we do draft a QB in the first, whoever is making the personnel decisions in 2018 best give that FQB some weapons and some protection on the o-line.
Even then, and this is the conundrum within the NFL, having all the right pieces and potential still does not mean Super Bowl(s). Stafford -> Megatron Ryan -> Gonzalez, Julio, Freeman, etc. Peyton -> James, Gore, Wayne, etc. Warner -> Bruce, Falk, (Rams) etc. ........................... ........................... ........................... It's more than a FQB, great supporting cast, and timely coaching decisions. The element of luck comes into play and frankly, the Jets haven't had any of it. Hopefully, if the team can get their act together with personnel, the luck factor changes in the Jets' favor as well.
Yep, and yet I think the Jets are a WR1 away from having a really legitimate WR group. Kearse is legit, Robby is a burner. I think they need to focus on getting Hansen and Stewart more reps instead of focusing on Kerley (who won't be on the team next season). We don't know what Enunwa will be next season. I think whoever is making the personnel decisions next season needs to invest in getting a WR1, and bolstering the o-line. We need to protect a 1st round draft pick QB.
I remember this, too. I was never able to get a comprehensive list of who all got fired and who all got to stay from the Bradway team. I have no idea how many holdovers are still there. At least Bradway's gone, that's a step in the right direction....
Oh, I also need to add, I think most of these scouts know predicting NFL success with accuracy is on par with the accuracy of the meteorologists out there. The good scouting people KNOW they are going to miss and miss a lot. The point is to have more draft picks than you are normally allotted to mitigate those failures. Tannenbaum was running the Jets like the Yankees, trading away precious draft picks for mid-career players. That's why we found ourselves in the predicament we were in. All of the players' careers ended and there were not enough new players in the pipeline to counteract that. Maccagnan is slowly trying to get the Jets into a stronger position by maintaining draft picks and not dealing them unless absolutely necessary. The moral of this story is that the Jets need to treat dealing draft picks like a normal person would handle 401k withdrawals; forget you have access to that resource and forget them when bargaining. If you can't make a deal without giving up picks, you need a plan to "pay yourself back".
Not sure why you have gone down this route, I never meant anything by any of my comments and the one that seems to have rattled your cage was a one I made to another poster, who I was only heading off as he interpreted our conversation wrongly, he took it fine and now you will not let it go, fuck me man, I said NEARLY GUARANTEED that is all, I could have said CC said they will ABSOLUTELY take another QB in the next draft it is pretty much the damned same. SO to keep it simple for you, I meant absolutely nothing by it, there should have been nothing for you to piss your pants over and drag it out by multi quoting the entire conversation and then again just now but adding a whole pile of stuff that really wasn't part of the original conversation but it hardly matters now. I like your posts as a rule and I didn't really dislike this one, I was genuinely surprised you were so NEARLY 100% that they would take one as of right now as that is where we were at in the conversation not in game week 16 when things are more clear and everybody will know if Kizer is a bust. So for me after 3 games I don't think they are going to draft a QB as Kizer is that man they were looking for but I agree if after 16 games he has gone to shit they most probably will do. So I hope that clears all of that up for you. Internet serious business
Well maybe the misunderstanding comes from cultural differences? But it bugged me that you took what I said and applied a meaning I never intended, and then criticized that meaning. I make enough mistakes as it is anyway! In any case, let's just move on. At the risk of creating more controversy, I will say that I really wish the Jets had drafted a QB, preferably Mahomes, but even Kizer, and dropped Hack. I'd feel much better knowing they had someone who already might be a FQB or at least very good, and wouldn't need us to root for them to lose which goes against my instincts as a fan.
This is why the Pats get away with murder on draft day-- they trade down and accumulate picks. Other teams fall in love with particular players and trade up to get them, then GMs pay the price when they don't work out. The Pats trade down and accumulate picks. Every time they do it, they simultaneously take all the pressure off of their front office, the team, and the guys they pick. If they trade down and miss out on a guy, nobody remembers it, if the guy they pick afterwards fails, nobody remembers it, if the guy they pick with the extra pick they got in trade also fails, nobody remembers that either. If either one of them hits, BB is a Genius! It's a win-win. ....Unless you don't have a FQB, that is. Then passing on one makes you culpable for life.
Yeah, but some of us may not live long enough to see them fix the problem and stop being the "SOJs." At least with a messianic QB, we would have the hope of seeing some playoff wins, and possibly getting to and even winning a SB. As it is now, we have little or no hope.
That may be true for all of us at the rate we're going. Could be worse, we could be Vikings fans or Bills fans, then we wouldn't even have history to fall back on. At least the Cardinals, Browns, Lions, and Eagles won championships back before the Super Bowl.
