If the protestors, be they ISIS, KKK, Nazis, are given a defined area to protest then I would avoid that park/street for the day. Of course if they leave their defined protest area and start attacking people that is a different issue entirely. But if you think people chanting, even if it is derogatory towards you, and you start trying to beat people because of what they say, then you would be the problem. Even if there are counter protestors they should also be in a defined area. The right to peaceful assembly means just that, peaceful. It doesn't mean if you don't like what someone is saying that you get to pick up bats and go after them. The fact some of the counter protestors had pipes and pepper spray tells me they were expecting a lot more than peaceful assembly.
"The demonstration was suffused with anti-black racism, but also with anti-Semitism. Marchers displayed swastikas on banners and shouted slogans like “blood and soil,” a phrase drawn from Nazi ideology. “This city is run by Jewish communists and criminal niggers,” one demonstrator told Vice News’ Elspeth Reeve during their march. As Jews prayed at a local synagogue, Congregation Beth Israel, men dressed in fatigues carrying semi-automatic rifles stood across the street, according to the temple’s president. Nazi websites posted a call to burn their building. As a precautionary measure, congregants had removed their Torah scrolls and exited through the back of the building when they were done praying." https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/nazis-racism-charlottesville/536928/ This sounds like a peaceful demonstration? That sounds like a damn good reason to pick up a bat. Like I said, if it was an ISIS rally, and they had rifles, machetes standing outside your church, with ISIS sites telling them to burn it down, you would go have a picnic?
Charging men with rifles, with bat in hand, sounds sensible. If ISIS had a rally outside someplace I was associated with, they had guns and they were threatening to burn it down I would call the police. I wouldn't posture with a bat trying to act the bad ass. You ever been shot before?
No, I have never been shot, but my grandfather was shot twice in WW2. I also dont have a tattoo on my forearm, but I had a grandmother who did. I also wouldnt charge someone holding a gun, but I would stand up for my home and not run and hide. What if those guys actually set the place on fire? You think there were extra policemen just hangin around waiting for a call?
I had asked if you had been shot because you seemed to think it was a smart thing to do, charging gun wielding Nazis. I never said run and hide. In fact I said if attacked that is a different story. Of course if they all had guns, I had nothing but a bat, and I had another option I would take the other option. You seem to have a problem with only using extremes. There are more than 2 options when confronted with bad people chanting at you from across the street. What if those bad guys actually did set it on fire, well then the fire exits would be utilized. Did you see the Rabbi coming out waving an oversized yad trying to beat them back?
See thats the issue. This became an extreme event when they showed up armed. For you to write a statement like that, makes it seem like this is fuckin normal to you. Sure, set the temple on fire, maybe all the jews will be able to get to a fire exit. The point is that in America 2017, no one should have to worry about their temple,church,mosque in their neighborhood being torched. They shouldnt have to feel threatened on their own streets. And if their President wont stand up for them, they will have to stand up for themselves.
No, they shouldn't have to worry, but an armed response in this situation would have been the wrong response. The armed guard they had out front did a good job deterring the 3 guys across the street though. But he didn't go across the street, he just stood there. Had the police given the synagogue the one officer they requested after the first threats, this likely would have been squashed right then. The Rabbi and synagogue did the right thing and it didn't involve having the congregation going outside with bats.
You are leading the discussion into an unnecessary branch. The point is, [peaceful protest away from these lunatics would have saved a lot of people] is not really the case. Call the police all you want. Does that stop the gun-wavering lunatics from opening fire? [US didn't have these mass gun-shooting deaths this year, amirite?] P.S. Again, this post is NOT about gun control or gun related death or anything gun. So do not even bother responding with anything half related with that crap. That was not the idea. I repeat. The point here is, these lunatics are bringing highly violent force. Peaceful protest away from them is hardly the solution.
Is countering with highly violent counter protest productive? Not sure where you saw me bringing gun control/gun related deaths/guns in general into the discussion. My point through all of these posts should have been pretty clear, that countering violent protestors with violence is not productive. Not sure what "unnecessary branch" I was taking the discussion into.
Its a disaster brad........stresses the entire system. And this is a system that can't afford additional stress.
Yes the bat waving stuff is for amateurs. U know if any faction of isis held a so called rally on US soil i think the police would be the least help..... Most non-authority citizens would take matters into their own hands. And i sure as hell would be one of those citizens if ever given a chance.
So says the 2nd amendment. We have this huge gun industry that depends on that logic. [And these gun freaks for that matter.] P.S. Ok. Enough jokes. First and foremost, you cannot brand the [entire] counter-protesting crowd as [violent.] Most - or almost all of them - are not violent. [Antifa and extreme violent groups do exist, but they do not speak for the majority.] Secondly, nobody thinks countering violent protest with another violent counter protest is effective. I did not even say this. [I don't know where you picked up this idea. Whatever the case is, it did not come from me.] My point was, simply, [stage counter protest away from these lunatics] logic has no merit whatsoever. They are the ones that should be ashamed of their lunacy, not the normal people. I see what people are trying to say here; violence is bad no matter who commits it. I agree. But violent scuffles happen if and only if there are two sides. Take a look at this tidbit from Germany. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/opinion/how-to-make-fun-of-nazis.html?mcubz=1) They sure as hell are not backing down from these lunatics. They even make sure these morons regret doing what they are doing. We should be looking into some of these tactics too; whatever the case is, we have to make sure that being exposed as a racist means abundantly painful social experience.
I didn't brand the entire counter protesting crowd violent, in fact I actually said a few times that the non-violent protestors should separate themselves from the Antifa. Well the post of mine that you replied to, was me responding to someone who thought responding with violence was the thing to do. When I stated again that violent counter response was not the solution, you said, "Peaceful protest away from them is hardly the solution." You say, "nobody thinks countering violent protest with another violent counter protest is effective" but also said, "Peaceful protest away from them is hardly the solution.". I hardly think a peaceful protest right up against a violent protest is possible unless the police presence is very large and arrests are made immediately. It seems one thing they utilize is 2 distinct areas, the Nazis get to march down the street and the counter protestors line the sidewalks with metal barriers lined up. Couple that with a good police presence and you can keep things calm it seems.
But that requires accepting that opposing world views, no matter how misguided or despicable, have a right to be voiced. Unfortunately we have a culture that believes you shout over and shut up opposing views, not actually dispute and oppose them.
brackets are cool ON TOPIC - so will Bannon leak everything about Trump? He looks like a two-faced bastard.
Breitbart News will get a lot more interesting in the coming days and weeks. Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
