yup, the 3 positions I am OK teams over-paying for are QB, LT, PR (pass rusher). So if there's another D'Brick sitting there, by all means overpay him
Obviously the positions of greatest need are edge db QB and tackle. If they happened to trade down they could look at tackles that slide with an extra pick.
I know we always disagree about the value of draft position--but I have to disagree once again. That's the kind of thinking that has teams pick John Matuzak over John Hannah or Steve Spurrier over Gene Upshaw. If you can get a John Hannah, Gene Upshaw, Mike Munchak, Jerry Kramer, Larry Allen, Russ Grimm, or Randall McDaniel who can up up 10 or 12 All-Pro seasons in a 14 or 16 year career, why would you not pick that guy first overall? These kind of guys are about the safest investment in football. Is it really better to take a flyer on a guy who has a 50/50 shot of becoming Payton Manning or Jeff George?
Someone once said the game is won in the trenches. You don't need superstars. You need dependable lineman that you can put in positions and forget about as they get the job done. We have devoted so many picks to taking care of the DL we can't keep just letting the OL go to SXXT. Alot of online picks are incredibly unsexy but there is very low bust factor. This is just my 2cents.
Tell that to the Dallas Cowboys who last time I checked won a lot more games than us. Also, the Steelers took DeCastro shortly after we passed. They have also won a lot more games than we have. So in short, yes they were wrong.
First, it's fine we disagree. That's what makes sites like this interesting and fun. Normally, I wouldn't even use a 1st round pick on an OG. It's just not a premium position. IMO 1st round picks are for QBs, LTs, OLBs, CBs, stud Safeties, WRs, TEs, and stud absolute stud ILBs. If I had no glaring weaknesses except at OG or C, then I'd probably use a 1st round pick in the 15-32 range on an OG or C. The only circumstance where I'd even consider using a top 10 pick on an OG or C is if I had everything else in place, had a glaring weakness at OG or C that I had been trying to fix for a couple of years, and it had caused my team to not make the SB. In that situation, I'd take an OG or C if he was a "can't miss" prospect. Otherwise, I'd never even consider using a top 10 pick on a lowly OG or C. That's the best way I know to have your team bereft of playmakers and to have your team salary schedule skewed out of control.
Right, you don't need superstars, which means you don't need to use 1st round picks on your interior linemen. On your OTs, yes, they should be 1st or 2nd round picks, but one should be able to find very good OL in the 2nd - 7th rounds, and even as UDFAs. I think the best spot to find OGs and Cs is the 2nd-3rd rounds.
True enough I just hope mac does not wait till round 5-7 to get these positions we are in dire need of.
I believe it's just the quality we had with d'brick and Mangold for years and they were drafted using premium picks. But at the same time it is believed lineman like them are not going to be available in this draft so I get the argument.
But that isn't the game anymore. Yes...everyone references the Cowboys for their super front 5. But look what they have at the skills.It helps when defenses actually fear your skill people & the OL doesn't always have to face 9-10 man fronts. Aside from the Cowboys...their is alot of parity within OL's league wide. Does Atlanta or the Patriots really have that great of fronts? Sure they have their good days..but they also have their bad days.It's feast or famine. Yes for a large portion of last year the jets OL was famine but they were also destroyed by injuries & had alot of street talent playing for them. Now we stand w. 4/5 of the starting line firmly in place. Sure the most important spot is still vacant & needs to be addressed..but there's alot of things working against the whole "LT at #6 or bust" 1. There is nobody worth the #6 pick at the LT position 2. There are far exceeding talents that will be there at #6 including on offense 3. There will be comparable LT prospects only marginally inferior to the 1st round types available in later rounds 4. The game is currently more greatly affected outside the numbers at the skill positions than in the trenches 5. The odds are much higher of finding top OL talent in future years than they are of finding a skill player We've had great OL's in the past. Even then Jet fans were bitching that we weren't good enough.But when have we EVER had quality offensive skill people? You wanna hone in on what's really plagued this team on the field? Miscommunications, Fumbles,the wrong route,dropped passes..lack of speed. Most of that is self inflicted & most of that falls on the skill players.Proverbial wisdom is that you address those spots down the line as they are sort of the "window dressing".Maybe that way of thinking is generally right...but it hasn't worked for our Jets...it doesn't lend to where the league is going...and all the good blocking in the world wouldn't prevent things like the butt fumble & ridiculous turnovers.
I bet the Steelers are insanely happy they took DeCastro where he did. He is going to be on that line for 10 plus years. Steelers are a hell of an organization, if they dont mind taking "non premium" position players, I wont. If you have a chance at a 10+ year starter (and in his case Pro Bowler), you take it. Who cares if it isnt a "premium position." If we took DeCastro at 16, no one would be complaining that we took a non premium position. We'd be getting praised for having one of the best offensive linemen in football.
All your points are valid... But... What do you think had a more profound impact on our offence? 1. Debrick retirement and Mangold injuries. Or 2. Decker out. 3. Fitz turning to crap. I go with option number 1. I do feel decker was important but our wide receivers stepped up and enunwa was awesome. Fitz well he's Fitz. Enough said. 2016 was much different than '15 offensively. Yea tougher schedule but the qbs just were running for their lives alot. Remember the highlight reel of petty getting rocked...That looked like it hurt. Alot. All because of our Oline. Your points ....Every one makes sense it's just scary thinking we may go into '17 with very minor changes to the oline if Free Agency brings nothing to the table.
This version of the NFL Roster doesn't exist any more. That All-Pro Guard is going to be too expensive to keep after the first contract, unless you have no QB to pay - in which case the great guard is going to be wasted anyways. If you do keep him alongside that QB at a very high price that directly impacts where else you can spend money, and great guards and mediocre tackles just represent a different point of weakness for the defense to attack. In an uncapped system guards would be worth more than they are. In an uncapped system without free agency they might well be a bedrock part of any offense because they line up so close to the ball on every snap. In a capped system you have to make choices and free agency is the lever that forces you to make good ones. There are a lot of positions in the NFL where good not great is what you want because it means less cap spending away from the ball. There are a few positions where no matter what you pay the guy it's worth it because they're great and they affect every play they line up on and the thing they are doing or guarding against is among the most important things on a football field. So, QB, LT, ROLB(3-4), 3T(4-3) and WR are the huge value positions. QB handles the ball on every snap and triggers the offense, being directly involved as a skill player in more than 50% of the plays. LT protects the QB's blindside and blocks for weakside rushing attempts, breaking the seal on that side. Involved as a high impact skill player on more than 50% of the plays. ROLB(3-4) is the primary pass rusher in a normal 3-4 defense attacking from the QB's blindside and also seals the edge on weakside rushing attempts, has to diagnose plays correctly to do two jobs that are in direct opposition to each other. Being in the perfect position on a pass is being totally suckered on a run and vice-versa. 3T(4-3) is the interior lineman responsible for applying pressure on the QB on passing downs and is directly responsible for interior runs as well. Lines up over the LG who is generally a pretty good pass blocker. WR has to present a major threat on every play even though he will directly affect only a small percentage of them other than as a threat. Has to be able to beat double coverage at times and has to be a deep threat with good scoring potential once a play has come his way. Paying a Guard, even a great one, like they're blocking a great pass rusher or are likely to open a hole that goes for a big gain on the ground is just an error in terms of priorities when resources are limited. A LT *is* blocking a great pass rusher on every play or forcing the best pass rusher on the opposing side to move over into the QB's field of vision to avoid matching up against the LT. He is breaking the seal on the weak side that allows a rusher to get some real yards on the outside and he's doing it without the help of the TE in most cases.
It's hard to answer what was more damaging b/c they affected each other. OL faced alot of heavy fronts b.c teams knew they were hurting but also b/c they didn't respect Fit'z s ability to beat them or the Jets running game. It also should be noted that the jets quietly switched to a very passive zone blocking scheme from their traditional gap.Just another variable to consider. I'm not exactly saying the Jets should only make minor changes to the OL. I just don't think "Drastic" changes especially to the starting 5..are realistic given the UFA/Draft class as well as the fact that 4/5 starting spots are already accounted for. Ideally..we accrue some additional mid round picks via trade down & are able to address OL depth & perhaps find another Brandon Shell to ultimately take the starting LT spot.If we could find a developmental swing tackle capable of starting down the line & at least competing early....and the same thing at Center behind Wesley Johnson...I think that'd improve this OL quite a bit over time. ?-Carpenter-Johnson-Winters-Shell Ijalana-Doozier-Qvale That isn't horrible but for the "?"
I agree wholesale changes are not needed but we need to bring in quality. Whoever it is. If that can be had in round 3-5 I'm all for it. I do think our lack of pass rush combined with our horrible DB's created almost no turnovers and the offence really struggling with field position whereas in 15 sacks were aplenty and turnovers were rampant. So your argument for skilled players rings true as we could get some ballhawks and better edge guys this actually helping the offence.
The pass D be it pass rush/coverage is a whole other enigma..but I guess my preference to address the O is based on the way the game has changed which has made defense alot less impactful..but also b/c we've invested so much into the D via the draft w. no return...and the cupboard is so bare on O. Just seems like it's time to try something different...and the team landscape,league landscape & draft class lend to such a notion. We're pretty much at rock bottom...the weapon upgrade would at least provide some excitement;why fight it? That said...look at our track record & who are head coach is. We're likely looking at another Defensive pick...
http://fansided.com/2017/01/25/5-teams-could-sign-doug-martin/ Forte-Powell-Martin would make a nice, crowded backfield, until Forte gets hurt or runs out of gas. Still, the other teams referenced in the article make more sense.
In today's NFL yes. The QB is worth much more than any other player. When you have an elite QB, a team full of JAGs can win. And no player but a QB can carry a team. Even JJ Watt has gone 2-14.
