It's a 50/50 debate IMO And believe me I wouldn't put him in. Two great runs shouldn't make a better than average QB, great. But for the two reasons I gave I think it gives him an edge in getting in.
if flacco or big ben didn't win rings we'd be discussing them entirely differently...sure they absolutely contributed but they were also supported by killer defenses and great running games. It's easy to evaluate SB winning QBs with hindsight...Of course their perceived value goes up after the fact. The whole original point of SB winning QBs is absolutely retarded if you ask me. What we really should be talking about is the need for a QB not to screw up and make a big play time to time which is of course a huge value and not easy to find (essentially Eli, Flacco, Russell Wilson and Big Ben during their championship seasons). Not the level of QB of already Superbowl champions. How many of these guys were NFL MVPs in those years? And how many NFL MVP QBs didn't win rings those years? Sure NFL MVPs win rings...But I feel like more often than not they don't...Which simply lends to you don't need the best QB in the game or even a top 5 QB to win a ring (its not the end all be all). That much is literally a fact. Eli's superbowls - Made huge plays in huge moments, didn't screw up with the ball those years, great pass rush Big Ben - Great running games, killer defenses, made huge plays when it counted, protected the ball Flacco - SB run with a strong run game, smoking hot defense, made big plays when it counted Russell Wilson - Killer run game, killer defense, makes smart decisions with the ball and makes the big play when it counts. See a trend? Note - I'm not saying they weren't essential...Of course they were. What I'm saying is having top 5 QB play is not a mandatory. Good to great QB play is essential.
Eli deserves to be in the Hall of Fame when its all said and done. I think he will have a resurgence with Beckham, Jr. anyway and the debate will be a moot point
It gives him an edge if he is a borderline guy, right now he isn't. W/ Beckham for the end of his career he could work himself into one.
you are taking too much credit away from those QBs, notice how many SBs the Steelers were winning before Ben, Bal didn't win a SB until Flacco played that postseason like a HOF and they won b/c of O not D that postseason. Wilson has a great D, there have been a million great Ds but few win SBs, He has been vital to the SB runs. Eli had 2 excellent postseasons and his D/STYs stepped up but Eli is a franchise QB even if not a HOFer.
I'm not saying anything differently than you are. I specifically said they were essential. My point is people's ridiculous notion around here it's top 5 QB or bust is nonsense. And discussing the QBs in a vacuum bc they have rings doesn't make them better QBs or HOFers. For the record Eli Manning is NOT a HOFer. His career stats will not allow it. My point is in 99% of cases the moment a QB wins a SB they are "franchise QBs"... Looking back on SB wins and using QBs as the prime example is not an accurate way to evaluate things.
2 SB Titles, 2 SB MVPs, Franchise leader in Wins*, TD Passes, Yards & Completions for one of the oldest & most successful franchises in the entire history of the game. He also happens to be 3rd & counting all time in consecutive starts by a QB. Guys like him are what the HOF is for. Career recognition. Some average folks will focus on fantasy stats, some average folks will be incredibly biased & naive towards a franchise or a family name, some average folks will overlook him because he wasn't as high profile or as good as his brother but that's why we have the HOF. To recognize the whole package of a guy's career & what he did in this league. He won't be among the upper echelon HOF QBs but he belongs in the group. He's the Terry Bradshaw of the modern era. If you keep a guy like him out of the hall you might as well not have a hall of fame IMO and I don't even like him or his team. *= he will be by week 8ish of the 2015 season
he didn't deserve either SB MVP, who cares if he has thrown more than anyone in franchise history to hold records? He's been a solid QB most of his career, he has had about one HOF worthy full season.
We're absolutely loaded this year. If the coaching staff can come up with a plan that turns our QB from a liability to competent they'll be real good. If they can get good QB play? They're one of the favorites to win it all.
I guess in the first Superbowl you can argue that Tyree with his catch wins the MVP even though Eli bought the time to make the throw. I still think in a game with no standout performer the quarterback wins it. But in the second Superbowl? Eli threw for 296 completing 75% of his passes with no turnovers. whose the MVP?
The D held down the best QB of this generation and arguably greatest of all time in both games. In the 1st one Tyree made the catch and had a TD earlier. In the 2nd game I think I give it to Tuck, he recorded the safety, had 2 sacks and again the Giant D played out of their minds against a top O. Eli played very well in both SBs and in both postseasons but I don't think he deserved either MVP. they give it to the QB far too often.
And its the Hall of Fame. Not the Hall of statistical excellence. You cannot tell the story of pro football over the last ten seasons without referring to Eli slaying the Patriots. Just cannot be done. He's in.
Unfortunately they can't give it to the unit or else the defense would've probably won it in both Superbowls. It's just the norm that if a quarterback throws for 250 and wins they get the MVP. That's how the Superbowl works and that's doesn't exclude Eli.
except it was their D that slayed NE, Eli led his O to 17 and 19 pts in the 2 SBs in 3 and 4 pt wins.
