If we don't figure out who's gonna replace Mangold and Dbrick soon we are gonna have a serious issue in the future.I think Mangold has 2 good years left maybe 3,Dbrick has maybe 2
There are probably 4 OTs worthy of a 1st round pick as of right now according to most draft sites and another 4 in the 2nd round, in addition there are 2 centers with 2rd round grades. See how everyone on the roster shapes out and hopefully a few players step up and show enough improvement so they don't need to use a 1st or 2nd on the line.
I agree that his replacement should be developed for a year. That's why I was advocating that we get his replacement int he his year's draft. I think waiting until next year is going to bite us in teh butt big time.
I don't know if we will necessarily go the free agent route to replace one but next year is a huuuuge year for free agent left tackles. Of course they will command a lot of money and some will get resigned. Trent Williams Nate Solder Donald Penn Anthony Castanzo Andrew Whitworth Russell Okung Cordy Glenn Kevin Beachum And on the right side: Tyson Clabo Khalif Barnes Jonathan Martin Todd Herremans Lamar Holmes Andre Smith Bobby Massie I don't know a lot about all of them but I do know the top 5 left tackles (Okung, Whitworth, Williams, Penn, Solder) are all very good. You'd have to assume Whitworth and Okung hit free agency for certain given the team's cap situations.
I respectfully disagree. I've never been a fan of Brick. He's always been a weak run blocker imo. He was beaten fairly often last year and gave up not a small number of sacks and pressures. Perhaps with a better LG next to him, different blocking schemes, a different OL coach and with Gailey at OC, he'll improve and you'll be proven to be correct. I hope you will be, but I'm not holding my breath. Two years is a TOTAL stretch imo, and one bordering on the disastrous for whomever the Jets' QB is at that point. That still doesn't take into consideration his cap hit, and I can't see either the Jets paying him $14 million or Brick's being willing to take a major pay cut. It may not matter that he could still play at a decent level. Unless his play improves greatly this season or he's amenable to a big pay cut next year, I think this should be his last year.
IMO it doesn't matter how quick his feet are, when he doesn't have the size or strength and isn't a good run blocker. Who cares if he can get out in front of the RB on a sweep if he's gonna wiff on the block or be beaten? Brick is NOT an OG. TO state that he could play OG is totally ridiculous imo.
I was thinking about Whitworth in my initial post but didn't know his status with regards to FA. I could definitely see Mac signing Whitworth and then drafting a youngster who would start at RT for a year or two.
It's rearly not as ridiculous as you're making it out to be. Not every offensive guard is a 345 pound mauler. What guards end up lacking in strength can be made up with speed. Obviously different schemes dictate different skillsets but he'd be a very good zone blocking offensive guard which require a guard to reach inside or outside and make their block based on positioning and sPeed. Long arms like his disallow defensive tackles to push him around because he keeps them and their lower body drive away from him so they can't bowl them over. I played guard in high school and we ran a zone blocking scheme. Obviously it's much different then the NFL but our center weighed 145 pounds and was one of the better centers in the county because of his speed and arm length. Who knows if he'd actually be good, but to say there's no way he'd be a good guard because he's not gigantic is silly and ignorant to say. A good example of why size isn't everything at guard is Max Jean-Gilles from Georgia some odd years back. A mountain of a man that destroyed defensive lineman in college but was way too slow to every be effective in the NFL. With the growing number of 3-4 defenses in the NFL, guards need to be quicker than ever because they have to get a body on inside backers when blocking to the open side.
I didn't say that he needed to be gigantic. That's your interpretation/misreading of what I said. I totally disagree with you that Brick could play OG, and it's not ignorant of me to disagree with you. He has worked at LT because he has had the agility and speed to shadow and push rushers wide and he's intelligent. As he gets older, his speed is going to get worse. He doesn't need to be "gigantic" but does need to be bigger than he is and be stronger and a better blocker. He has had problems keeping weight on and has always been close to being a liability in the rushing attack. You make it sound like he''d be pulling on every play, that's not gonna happen. With him at OG, the Jets would lose the ability to run straight through his side of the line and opposing Ds could shift to the center and other side of the line and really hinder our rushing attack, which with our QB situation, would be disastrous. He is not a good enough blocker to succeed at OG imo. Using the example of what happened with you in HS is laughable. Just as size isn't everything, speed or intellgence arern't either. At some point an OG has to be a very good blocker, he has to be able to drive his man off the LOS and Brick plain and simple can't do that with any consistency. Perhaps you are OK with Richie Anderson level blockking where all he did was get in front of the defender for a second or two, but I am not, and particularly not at his level of pay.
You just keep referencing size and strength when talking about one's blocking ability and it's a part of it but it's really not as important as technique is. It helps to mask those whom have terrible technique. I don't think you understand the intricacies of blocking and drive blocking or the ability to work together as a cohesive line. The Broncos of the Shanahan era were all 290 pound guys with limited strength who worked together to move the line of scrimmage which is the premise of zone blocking to allow the back to pick the hole or seam they create. If a run blocker beats his man to the spot with quicker feet and gets his hands inside it really doesn't matter who is stronger at that point especially with a player like Brick that plays with great balance and leverage. His declining speed becomes a problem against edge rushers as he gets older (since his whole game is predicated on speed) but he'd still be one of the quicker guard in the league. You're enamored with this phantom strength statistic because he's a 310 lineman. Over the years he hasn't had much trouble with 290 pound edge rushers that were fast as hell like Mario Williams. I'm not saying he'd be an all pro at it but my god to dismiss him as if he couldn't do it because you subjectively don't think he's strong enough is silly, especially when you clearly don't know anything about blocking technique.
I really don't think brick has been as bad as people on this site make it sound. He gave up a few more sacks than usual last year but it wasn't like he was terrible. Maybe it was just a down year. Maybe if we had a LG that wasn't a HS level player he'd have a bounce back year.
I have written off Winters and Aboushi. If they pan out it is all gravy. I have more hope for Dozier and the guard we picked up this year but don't think we have been taking the guard position all that seriously for quite some time.
Brick will prob restructure his contract and add more years to his deal to retire as a Jet. This will clear up a ton of cap space. Brick still has something left in the tank, he's not as bad as people make him out to be. We need to upgrade the G and T positions first, maybe you find a LT that can play RT for 2 or 3 years then transition him over to LT when Brick is TRULY done.
I can't understand the notion of giving up on OL prospects quite so soon. More than any other position in the NFL we see OLers get stashed away on depth charts for 2-3 years in order to develop proper technique and more formidable physical traits like size & strength. Being doubtful about a prospect is one thing based on in game assessment is one thing..but we see young OL take massive steps in performance seemingly on a yearly basis. I'm not sure I understand writing off Aboushi.Frankly I've never understood what so many have against him. Yes he was out of position & badly needed time in weight room his rookie year. But what did he do wrong last year filling in for Winters? He badly outperformed Winters, gave the line a spark..was quick off the ball,physical & at least average in pass pro. I'm not saying he's the savior or a future all pro..and hell maybe he doesn't even make the team..but hat weaknesses did he show starting last year that has so many writing him off?
If you are comparing Aboushi to Winters you are setting the bar very low. Outplaying Winters does not make you a solid NFL starter.
I agree with you and I believe he will improve again this year, one strike he has against him is that he is an Idzik pick, that draft was bad, so I don't think anyone of those players other than Richardson, will get the benefit of the doubt. He did not just play better than winters, his play was very good last year, he helped to establish the 3rd overall rushing attack in the NFL, he also helped to give Geno more time to throw, but Geno is such a terrible QB that he would make the 90's Dallas cowboy line look like average linemen, not the hall of famers they were. The jets oline is going to be fine this year, it's the QB position that has to be addressed. I would not lose sleep over a LT anymore in today's NFL.
Winters is pretty bad man. Aboushi hopefully will improve, but we still have holes at RT, and LG. Depends where Aboushi starts on the line. I disagree completely, Suh and those guys in BUF will dominate our offensive line if we don't see improvement at those 3 positions. If Fitz starts, Fitz will need protection.
This is my last response to you since you have to resort to insulting me when it's clear that you have reading comprehension issues and are seeking to put words in my mouth. I don't minimalize the importance of technique or speed. Brute strength and size are not enough in the NFL. It takes a combination of size, strength, speed and technique to be ultimately successful. He undoubtedly would be one of the quickest OGs in the NFL, but I'm sorry, all the technique and speed in the world aren't gonna move Suh off the line or similar nose tackles off the line. And that's who he would be going up against on every play, not those 290 pound edge rushers. At some point, one has to have some size and strength to maximize leverage. 310 pounds is small for an OG in today's NFL, and especially for the DLs the Jets will be facing in the AFC East. This isn't the same era of Shanahan and the Broncos. You're talking apples and oranges, almost as silly as your or someone in this thread talking about what his high school team did. I don't care what you think about my knowledge and understanding of the intricacies of OL play (or lack thereof). Aboushi is a perfect example of this. He is quick off the snap, and his technique was pretty good, but everyone said he needed to get bigger and stronger. When he did, his play improved. Brick might be passable at OG, but I'm not interested in "passable." At OG I want guys who are solid in pass protection and can blow guys off the LOS in the rushing attack. I want real drive blockers. I don't want a low bar for the level of play just because some guy has been on the team for 10 years. That's thinking like a fan, rather than a GM and won't get the team where we want it to be...a Lombardi Trophy winner. Your comment that if a blocker beats a defender to a spot with quicker feet and gets his hands inside is not always true. Players like Suh can and do still defeat those blocks. They just toss those would be blockers aside or drive them right back into the RB. You're the one who sounds ignorant of the realities of today's NFL.
