Rarely do I call people names on this board but you sound like an idiot. The "facts" are Mariota went 24/37 (65% CMP) 333 passing yards (9.0 avg) 2 TDs and 1 INT plus 39 yards rushing against OSU. The only Oregon players back peddling in the Championship were the offensive and defensive fronts who got completely manhandled, the defensive line especially. Mariota still managed to have a decent game despite getting little to no help from his o-line and defense. Grasp that.
Cook cannot ever learn the athleticism that Mariota has. He cannot ever learn his speed or agility or mobility or the ability to extend plays. He is physically incapable of learning those things. That's not "dumb", that's reality. Mariota CAN learn to take snaps from under center and 3-5-7 step drops. He CAN learn a pro style offense. Mariota right now is much much more accurate than Cook and throws much better on the run than Cook but maybe Cook can learn THOSE skills. Just admit that you don't want Mariota under any circumstances instead of playing your little charade. That's what I mean by "agenda". You want Cooper and then Cook next year. That would be the mature thing to do, rather than trot out bs (like suggesting Arians dies not specifically like Mariota) then call me immature. Btw, I understand some folks don't want Mariota. That's fine. Stick to your guns. I dont agree but this isn't a discussion to obtain consensus. _
I'll back you up, 101, on this. At first you seemed all against him, but have seen you make a couple of posts to the effect of what you say above. Even if you have "flip flopped" a little, there's nothing wrong with that. IMO that shows an open mindedness and honesty. Anyone with an open mind can have his/her opinion changed as they learn new facts or reconsider their own opinions after hearing a convincing opinion from another poster. We aren't professional talent evaluators. Some players are hard to evaluate, and we are entitled to change our minds or waffle a little. What kills me are these posters who act like know it alls and never change their minds. Even when it has been proven that they were wrong, they won't admit to having been wrong. They either continue to defend their opinion, disappear, or attack anyone who dares mention that they were wrong.
Not enough for moving down 14 spots in the draft, not nearly enough. I'm not that high on Foles, especially to give up a chance at Mariota, Fowler,White or Cooper.
Yes, Cam was hurt before the accident. I think it was his ankle first, then his ribs from the accident. I forget how he hurt his ankle. With regard to his throwing mechanics, I wonder if they're even trying to fix those. To do that, they'd probably have to sit him and him just focus on that for a while, and that's not gonna happen. With regard to the bolded sentence, I'm sorry, but I think you need to re-think your response. Stokes' point is valid. "Talent" can't be learned. "Skill" can be. Mariota has talent that Cook can only dream about. Right now Cook possesses some skills that Mariota doesn't have because the offense he played in didn't require those things and thus he was never taught them. Meanwhile, Mariota has talent (speed, athleticism, quick thinking/decision making, and maybe even football IQ). I say maybe with regard to football IQ, because I'm not sure if it's totally a talent. I think football IQ can be improved to a degree, but I'm not sure it can be developed in a player that never has had any, or hasn't had much. I think with some players their instincts of the field get sharper/better with more experience, but with other players, their instincts never seem to improve.
That's all I've been saying. When you have to repeat it 1000x based upon 1000 bs variants, I guess it could sound immature.
I don't give a crap about elite athleticism when it comes to the QB position. That's not what I look for in a QB first and foremost. Cook has the ability to extend plays IN THE POCKET and deliver the ball down the field. I recognize what flaws, the QBs I like, have - it seems that you do not. This severely hurts your credibility IMO. You are right, I didn't want anything to do with Mariota for the longest time. Then, I saw how well he played against Michigan State, and Stanford those were 2 games I thought he was impressive despite the injuries on the offensive line - playing pro style defenses. At one point, I actually started liking the guy as a potential NFL QB. Then, I saw him in the FL State and NC game, I wasn't all that impressed so you can understand why I am up and down on the guy. I want a QB as much as the next guy. That's why I can never say, "oh let's pass on Mariota on the 6". The perfect plan will need to be in place, and I really like some of the other prospects so it's a tough call for me. A big time pass-rusher could take Brady down once and for all. I think you and other posters here that want Mariota, have made a very strong argument, that I cannot deny - I'm just not on board 100% - I still have my doubts. I'm looking forward to seeing him more on his pro day. You seem to be much more realistic in terms of his NFL potential - I respect your opinion in regards to him as a prospect.
While I haven't seen a lot of ducks games live, I am addicted to NFL Draft Breakdown, which has a lot of tape on Mariota, including all of his throws against OSU. With the exception of one or two plays, Mariota appears to have executed the game plan to satisfaction. Drops in key moments, including what-would-have-been-a-long-TD determined the outcome of that game. Certainly, reasonable minds can and will differ, but the OSU game doesn't bother me as much as say the 2013 Arizona game. All of this is to say that Mariota is a variable like any other NFL Draft prospect. What cannot be denied is that his physical talent level is off the charts. He can use his legs, as well as his arm. Where the debate lies is whether he possesses the requisite moxie and intelligence to execute at the NFL level. Using his collegiate body of work, it appears that he worked hard and mastered the system in which he was asked to perform and performed under pressure. There's that old adage: "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard" -- and don't I have any questions about how hard he can and will work for whatever team selects him. If we are lucky, it'll be the New York Jets.
Well that's the call the Jets will have to make. It's an easy call given who they have in house at this point. Chan Gailey is either going to think he can turn Mariota into a star or that there are going to be issues developing him in the NFL. I'm guessing his opinion will carry a lot of weight in the Jets pre-draft evaluation process.
Talent doesn't always win in this league IMO. I do believe Cook has some skill-sets that would make him a very good NFL QB at the next level, him knowing the pro offense gives him a head start and it allows him to focus on the other things he needs to improve on. Cook has a very good football IQ, comes from a school with very good coaching over at MSU. He doesn't make a lot of mistakes and he's improved each yr as a starter. He can operate in the pocket and he can make some pretty effortless throws down the field. He's got sneaky athleticism, he likes to operate in the pocket and can move around the pocket and extend plays. Cook has some accuracy issues at times, I agree - I think he works on his footwork consistently when throwing the football, he could be a very good NFL QB. Cook has a stronger arm, that I have no doubt about. Mariota at the end of the day is more talented that's fine and I agree - I just like what Cook brings to the table and I think he would be a good fit on the Jets.
I can understand having doubts about Mariota and/or not being on board 100% with him, especially when there are other blue chip prospects sitting there at positions of dire need. What I can't understand is how some people just summarily dismiss him as if he had no talent, no high football IQ, no arm, no accuracy, no ability to learn and want to lump him in with the other stiffs that are rated 3-5 rounds below him. I can also not caring about elite athleticism in your QB. Thanks. I always try to be realistic. I may not always succeed, but I try. I don't see much point in not being realistic.
That's great. You give clear, concise, logical reasons why you like Cook and why you have your doubts about Mariota. I respect that. They both could be solid starters in the NFL or be inconsistent like Geno. I do think Mariota's talent gives him a higher ceiling although at the moment he has a lower floor.
The main point about Mariota is that the OSU game is more indicative of the conditions he'll face in the NFL than most of the games he played in college. If he goes to a team with a good offensive line and good receivers and a running game to take the pressure off of him he may be a good QB in a year or two. If he goes to a team that doesn't have a good offensive line and that has mediocre receivers the running game better be great or Mariota is going to be roadkill in hurry, particularly if he's on the field day 1. If Aaron Rodgers had been picked by a top 6 team in 2005 and thrown on the field right away the odds on him becoming the QB he is today would have been very low. He got picked by a good team, a playoff team, with an incumbent QB who kept him on the bench for two years and then he got handed a working offense when he hit the field. He turned it up some and the good offense became great and the rest is history. If Marcus Mariota gets drafted by a talent-poor team and is thrown on the field immediately the odds are enormous that he'll fail. If he's drafted by a team with good pieces on offense and gets to sit for a bit and watch he's got a much better chance to succeed. He's worth about 5x as much to the Eagles as he is to the Jets, or to any of the other teams in the top 6. None of the teams in the top 6 have the resources to support him at the moment and none of them will have the patience to nail him to the bench for a season and let him get his feet on the ground.
That's the issue right there. You call his not having played in a pro style offense a "flaw". It's not a flaw like inaccuracy or a weak arm or small stature or slow or dumb or lazy or being an a-hole. He's never been ASKED to play in a pro style offense--which is a LEARNED skill not a talent. I recognize that he's never played in a pro style offense but it's something that a superior talented player with a high football IQ, work ethic and dedication should be able to master. Will he? Nobody knows but you're dismissing him as not being ABLE to do those things when it's really a matter of him not having been asked to do it. _
The Geno Smith comparisons are completely unwarranted. Those comparisons are the ones that piss me off. Mariota's attitude and approach to the game is completely different - that's the reason why I can't write him off - and that's something you can't take away from him as well. That's why I think the kid is worth the top 10 selection. Jets FO needs a long-term plan in place and that includes acquiring a veteran QB like Brian Hoyer to hold the fort for a year or 2. If the Jets feel they have the adequate time to let this kid sit and develop he could be a star at the next level. They will need to avoid the media's bullshit along with nitwit fans that have no patience. Jets prob are one of the better fits for Mariota, if indeed they sit him down. There's a rumor out that the Eagles will trade for the #1 pick. Nick Foles, LeSean McCoy and three first-round draft picks to the Bucs.
Foles vs Glennon would be the all-time dorky QB competition. As to sitting Mariota with somebody like Hoyer or Moore or Fitzpatrick holding down the fort: good luck with that. I think Mariota would be on the field by mid-season at the latest. The reason the Packers were able to sit Rodgers was that they had a great QB at the end of his career to put on the field in front of him. The reason the Giants managed to keep Eli on the bench for half a season in 2004 was they had a great QB at the end of his career to put on the field in front of him. What do you envision the environment being in terms of popular opinion, tabloid frenzy and billboards if Mariota is still on the bench with the Jets 2-4 in late October?
I hope the Jets brass knows if they throw him out too early that it could ruin the regime. They need to ignore the outsiders and go with their plan. Woody Johnson, I don't think has the patience and will try and pressure them into throwing Mariota out there. Kurt Warner BTW was trash with the Giants - a fumbling nightmare, could we get the same production with Hoyer? It's possible. BTW Foles v Glennon - that would be a comedy show that would keep the laughs coming. Lovie Smith the worst part about it prob wouldn't mind it.
Peyton Manning was drafted onto a team that had Marshall Faulk at RB and Marvin Harrison at WR. They had a very good young LT in Tarik Glenn. They had a good young LG in Steve McKinney and a good young RT in Adam Meadows. They drafted a bunch of people to support Manning after the fact. He basically got Gold-level support from the Colts during the entire development process. They even let Faulk go in a trade and drafted Edgerrin James as an immediate replacement when Faulk and Manning began to conflict over who the offense was centered around. We look at Manning and say he's the guy who changed the NFL into a passing league. In truth it was Bill Polian who did that. He took a QB who he knew had the tools to be great and then he threw everything including the kitchen sink into making him achieve that potential. There's no QB that you can draft right now who is going to be able to approach that standard in a vacuum. Manning wouldn't have achieved what he achieved if he hadn't been very well supported coming in the door and then had the organization going into over-drive to keep his development on track. The Colts went 3-13 in Manning's rookie season after going 3-13 the year before. How would the Jets survive back to back disaster seasons in this market?
