You have to remember though that OSU's defense was much better than what Mariota will face at the NFL level. That he was 3-10 with a sack on 3rd down against them means nothing. He'll feast on the much worse NFL defenses. NOT.
I'll buy the assertion that the spread CAN help a QB compile very good, if not great numbers. That doesn't mean it does. In fact, very few QBs coming from spread systems have compiled anywhere near the stats that Mariota did. His athleticism is greater than most QBs, and so is his football IQ and accuracy. Those attributes should have had him excel in ANY offensive system in college, and should help him to be a quality QB in the NFL. No one may have come right out and said that they think he will bust, but quite a few posters have said that they're afraid of him, or he's too risky, which in effect, is really saying the same thing, i.e., they think he has a chance to bust.
I knew it was harsh, and I'm sorry. Again, I tried to temper it. I know all my frustration wasn't aimed solely at your response (not you personally), and I'm sorry that you had to catch the brunt of it. I do realize there are other perspectives. As long as someone can back up their perspective with solid facts or reasoning, I'm fine. I don't expect or even want everyone to agree all the time. Sorry, but I just felt that your post was filled with half truths, inacurracies, and specious reasoning. Those always bother me, regardless of who does/says them or where. Please notice that I said you "seem" to not know squat. I know by your other posts that you do. I did a poor job of it, but I was trying to get you to write a better response as to the reasons why you don't want Mariota. You did that in this response, and I thank you for that. You said that you prefer pure pocket passers rather than dual threats. I TOTALLY understand and respect that, and that is sufficient. You don't need to try to come up with or reach for other reasons where you're on thin ice. This is the crux of our disagreement, and that's fine. It requires no explanation or support for that preference. I prefer a dual threat QB. I think it puts a LOT more pressure on opposing Ds. They often have to tie up one player as a spy, which should open things up for receivers over the middle or help open things up in the rushing attack. It also helps keep opposing Ds more off balance. Of course, QBs have to be smart about it, and judicious when and where they run, and know how to slide or get out of bounds so they don't take big hits. The last thing anyone wants is to see their starting QB go down with an injury (Well, there may be some Jets fans that have wanted to see Geno go down with an injury, or Sanchez when he was here. LOL) While you're partially right that some plays will be taken away in the NFL because of the greater overall speed and scheming of Ds, not totally. A QB as fast as Mariota is still going to be able to use his feet to pick up key first downs and sustain drives, and elude tacklers. Geno's not even that good of a runner, and how many big first downs has he picked up? How many TDs has he scored running the ball? How many big hits has he taken? I respect you and your opinion as well. I'm sorry my post didn't come across more in that vein. I guess I had just hit my saturation point with posters making up stuff, posting faulty information, misconstruing facts and comments in an effort to minimalize Mariota's worth/potential, and it all came to a head with your post. I agree with you that Rodgers is more of a pocket passer than a "dual threat" and runs only when nothing is open. I think Mariota will evolve into that type of QB. The thing is, however, even if he doesn't, with his size and speed, I think he would avoid a lot of hits, and his size would better enable him to take what hits he did get. If Rex, MM and Lee were still here, I'd also agree with you about the lack of wisdom of taking Mariota and expecting them to do anything with him. Thank God, they are no longer here. Gailey is KNOWN for getting the best out of his players and devising/altering his system to fit around the talents and skills of his players. It's a new day, and I don't think there's any reason to fear that he won't succeed in grooming a young QB if the Jets take one. That said, if for no other reason than our sorry history in doing that very thing, I can understand your reluctance. It's irrational because we have a new FO and CS, but it is an understandable irrationality that we all suffer from at times and to some extent. Our history is a hard thing to overcome at times, and ultimately, I can't blame any long-term Jets fan for having doubts, fears, and altered philosophies because of what we've experienced. It's a wonder we're not all nuts.
What ? College Spread offenses are the ones that have put up the gaudy passing stats over the last decade. At least 12 of the top 15 single season passing leaders worked out of spread offenses. Hell, Graham Harrell of Texas Tech passed for over 15 thousand yards in 3 years as a starter The reason that people have said that they are afraid of him is because NO ONE KNOWS if Mariota can make the transition to being a pocket passer. He might turn out to be one of the greatest QB's ever. He might turn out to be average. He might just turn out to be a bust. Granted, this is true for just about all QBs coming out of college, but with Mariota (or any spread QB), there is more "unknown".
Re-read what I wrote. I didn't say that it didn't. What I said that it doesn't with every QB, and when talking about a spread QB, we aren't just talking passing numbers, but also rushing numbers.
I'm a huge MM fan and I still agree with the quote. MM is probably light years behind in the spitting out verbiage, changing snap count and/or commanding a huddle but trust that he has the mental aptitude to catch up quickly. Note Arians said nothing about tight windows, under center or footwork.
Huh ? You lost me there. I'm trying to figure out what your point is and it's difficult because between this thread and the one about trading up for Winston, you seem to be arguing both sides.
I don't feel like reading 32 pages right now so this question may be redundant... I'm sure there are videos of MM in high school. Aren't there any where he worked under center? They'd certainly aid in predicting what he's capable of doing in the NFL.
I thoughT Arians said something like what Mariota was doing in college is not playing QB. Maybe my memory fails me.
Tim Tebow was a truly great college QB and a force of nature who had no skills that would translate well to the NFL game. Marcus Mariota is a truly great college QB who in all probability does not have skills that will translate well to the NFL game. His arm is decent but nothing special. His ability to read defenses is an unknown. His ability to develop the consistent footwork required of an NFL QB is an unknown. His best asset, his legs, will not translate well to the NFL at all because QB's who run a lot get hurt a lot, no exceptions. The more I think about Mariota the more I realize that he's the perfect illusion for Jets fans at the moment. He ran a very high-powered offense and we are starved for offense after 5 years of Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith. He appeared to be in total command of the offense he ran in college and our QB's have frequently appeared to be confused, bewildered and ultimately betrayed by their inadequacies and in some cases their teammates. Oregon was very successful with Mariota at QB and the Jets have been very unsuccessful for 4 years in a row now due to inadequate offenses led by struggling QB's. It easy to look at Mariota and think that he's going to lead us out of the misery that the NY Jets offense has inflicted on 4 successive teams. He played in a spread in college. He ran the ball a lot to keep the defense off balance. He hurried the tempo to keep the defense from adjusting personnel or game plans on the fly. None of that applies in the NFL or to his situation with the Jets if we draft him. He's going to be starting over and he's going to be starting from a lower level than many of the people we try to compare him to historically. Peyton Manning didn't run a spread at Tennessee, he ran a pro set from under center. Tom Brady didn't run a spread at Michigan, he ran a pro set from under center. Of the recent college QB's who have made good in the NFL, most of them came out of modified pro sets, sometimes in the shotgun and sometimes under center. The exceptions, like Cam Newton, RGIII and Colin Kaepernick are already breaking down or wearing thin in the NFL because running for a living breaks you down and no QB is able to carry a team with his legs the way a guy can in college. It's hard to look at things objectively but the guys that Mariota is most like are people like Cam Newton, RGIII and Colin Kaepernick. Those are the guys you need to project him against, not people like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. He doesn't have the skills or experience right now to be projected as a great NFL QB. He may develop those skills but that's just a hope at this point. The reality is that he's going to be running for his life in the NFL and that wears thin very quickly.
One hit wonder ? Pennington, your so-called one hit wonder, made the playoffs three times with the Jets, every year he was healthy. Then for good measure, the season he was dumped for Favre, he took the previously 1-15 Dolphins to the AFC East division title and the playoffs.
Chad had the leadership thing down but he needed a good team around him to make it work. He was the perfect example of a guy you could plug in on any good team and make it better. 1-15 to 11-5 was all Parcells. That's what he does when he inherits a sad sack team. He brings in some good vets and he changes the atmosphere and he gets the most out of them. Then the vets go away because they're vets and the team declines again. The reason Parcells failed in Dallas was Jerry Jones. He hasn't failed anywhere else. Parcells did find him Tony Romo before he left. He found the Jets Chad Pennington before he left. Parcells did flip the Cowboys from 5-11 to 10-6 in one season.
An unadulterated massive load of horseshit. And probably one of the unintentionally funniest things you've ever said on this board. _
Rodgers sat for 3 years... Luck's father was an NFL QB. Foles, get back to me. And...Well...as much as I liked Palmer, he has yet to win a playoff game. You would have been more credible using the Sanchez argument against me. Oh, wait...He didn't fold like a cheap tent in the Rose Bowl, did he? In Big Games Sanchez > Mariota. If that's the bar, well...
The bold is the dumbest thing I read on the subject thus far and there's been a lot of dumb shit posted. Just when I thought you could not top the previous bold we have this. Russell Wilson has nearly 2,000 yards in his first 3 seasons in the NFL and 2 Super Bowl appearances to boot. Is that not an exception? I agree with Stokes about this being mostly horse shit but I do find it funny how Cam Newton, RGIII and Colin Kaepernick are being written off as though their careers are over as opposed to just getting started.
