Why are you bringing guaranteed money into the argument? Did any of my suggested solution say anything about guaranteed money? The only future cap space at risk is from 2 bonuses in the first 2 years of the deal and they tier in a way that the Jets don't have to pay the second bonus if they decide to move on.
Bonus money is treated s guaranteed dollars when it comes to the salary cap, it doesn't just disappear from the books because you added the word "bonus" to it. All money paid to a player counts against the cap. I don't understand what is so difficult about this. The cap hits are what matters, you are telling me that the contract "just works itself out" but that is simplistic and doesn't take into account the ramifications. Harvin has 40mil left to be paid on his contract and if you start turning that into bonus money you are GUARANTEEING it against the cap.
You're not understanding my posts. I already have accounted for the bonuses in the yearly cap hits and dead money. They're already there. When you have as little talent on offense as the Jets have at the moment the prospect of a single relatively small dead money hit shouldn't deter them from keeping Harvin around for 2015 and 2016 at decent cap numbers and compensation.
Exactly. Not to mention the salary cap is going to go up, so any dead money in future years will be an even smaller percentage of the cap. As I said, if the Jets want Percy Harvin he will be in the opening day line-up at Eric Decker money, possibly less. He wont count more than $7 million against the cap..tops. I like your scenario even better, I was just giving his agent the benefit of the doubt.
You said that you'd give him a 5 mil bonus and 4 mil salary but he'd only count against the cap in 2015 for a little over 5mil. That means you are pushing 5mil of his current salary number into a later year when it comes to cap accountability. Which is fine unless he doesn't work out. You want him to count against the cap for 7+mil in 2016, when his 2016 salary number is about 9 and a half mil. There's 2mil more that gets pushed back. His contract numbers don't go down because you adjusted how you pay him, they just get moved around. So in those first two years you have shoved 7mil to the later years. That doesn't just work itself out.
No, you're reading it wrong. You said there's no way to get Harvin at Decker numbers and what I posted is Harvin at Decker numbers for 2015 and 2016, with a roughly $4M dead money hit at the end of it. If the Jets choose to keep Harvin at the big numbers in 2017 and 2018 it will be because they think he's worth it, not because some cap hit is going to cripple them if they cut him. It's the Jets option after 2015 as to whether or not to keep Harvin and the price of a cut is cheap as long as they do it before the 2016 option bonus.
This isn't making sense... The only way he would count for $7+ mil in 2016 is if you guarantee his 2016 salary. He would only count for however much the prorated 2015 bonus is if you cut him.
That's not how it works. When you trade or release the player those numbers you pushed back become an accelerated cap hit, that is the danger of restructuring a contract. Giving money up front and deciding to account for it later is nice but of you cut him, that 7mil you pushed back counts against the cap immediately.
Yes, in the worst case scenario the Jets choose not to pay the 2016 option bonus and let Harvin go and take a $3.75M dead money hit on the 2016 cap. In the best case scenario they play him in 2015 and 2016 and then he's worth the $13M cap hit in 2017 and it's an easy call. If not they cut him for a $3.83M dead money hit. Done.
Only the portion that is moved counts against the cap in future years if he is cut. If the Jets convert $9M of his $10.5M into a signing bonus, then $3M a year would be added to his cap figure for 2016 - 2018. Lets say the Jets then part ways with him after this season. 1. Harvin still gets his $10.5M for the year. 2. Jets lower their 2015 cap by $9M. 3. The Jets would have $3M in dead money for 2016 to 2018. The cap is expected to increase $5M-$8M annually over the next few years. Converting a portion of his 2015 base salary into a bonus and keeping him makes the most sense. As a fan, who cares if he gets paid $10.5M as long as that figure doesn't count against the cap? Meaning he gets paid and the Jets still go out and get additional players because their cap is lower. Win win.
Yes, I did say it wasn't possible, maybe because I considered the possibility of how you would aside at that number a tasteless endeavor. That is the lint I have been making, to backload those numbers is not worth the risk. The price of a cut is not cheap if you take into account the cap hit you will bite when you cut him. It's not just a small dead money cost, even though you keep saying that.
No it doesn't. The amount not accounted for against the cap already get accelerated. If the Jets cut Harvin after 2016 under the scenario they only have $3.83M of the $7M in bonuses left to account for. They already accounted for $2.5M of the original $5M bonus in 2015 and 2016. They accounted for $.667M of the $2M bonus in 2016.
Edit: Nevermind, the poster above me already summed it up better than I did. Long story short, this is not true.
You and Br4dw4y5ux are exactly correct. That is the type of deal you will see...IF the Jets want him. Maccagnan might just decide he's rather have the 4th round pick. In which case Harvin will be cut and he will get a deal very similar to the ones you guys laid out, except it will be with another team. Charlie seems to be getting caught up on the fact that Harvin said he won't take a pay cut. That's laughable. He's taking a pay cut no matter what, and he and his agent know that.
Right and the Jets could choose to do this in 2017, splitting the remaining $3.83M hit over 2017 and 2018 for a $1.91M hit each seas0n. Under my scenario they couldn't do this in 2016 because they have to make the decision on the option bonus early in the league year and if they want to move on that's the time to cut Harvin. BTW, that 2017 time frame would be completely in the Jets favor if they decided to try to get Harvin to renegotiate again. Having to wait until June 1st to find a team for 2017 would really suck for Harvin. Most of the cap space is gone by then and the teames that still have cap space are mostly rebuilding and probably not interested in a 29 year old player at a high price.
Charlie, you seem to be assuming that we are going to guarantee money to Harvin past this year. Why is that?
Damn. I think I've been wrong through this whole thread, assuming that there would be a huge bonus up front. Sorry guys, I'm a dope.
