Just for the sake of discussion, if Mariota was available at #6, how would you feel about the Jets trading down for a boatload of picks, if they were to target Cook in next years draft (and presuming that Cook hit 65% this year )?
It's part of the 26-27-60 rule for QBs. QB prospects who surpass 26 on the Wonderlic, accrued 27 or more collegiate starts and completed more than 60% of their passes in those starts generally tend to find success in the NFL.
I have watched a little bit of Hackenberg and I do like him as a prospect. What you identified as his positives are definitely true. I worry about his athleticism though.He seems to be too much of a statue back there. I am admittedly only basing it off a few games I saw of him. Does he get sacked a lot? I don't follow Penn St. to know. A pocket passer doesn't have to be the most athletic guy in the world but they need to be able to move around a little and avoid the rush. Hackenberg seems like an old school flat-footed type, in the mold of a Drew Bledsoe to me. He does have a nice arm though and he practically carries that team on his back.
Are you asking ME? What MY opinion is? I'M the GM? I personally don't see Cook as ever being a franchise QB. I don't see him as accurate or particularly mobile or athletic. So I personally cannot presume he'll ever hit 65% next year. And even if I did, I can't presume to be in a position to draft him. And I'd never give up picks to get him. I PERSONALLY think Mariota will be the next great QB and I would not trade him for ANY number of picks. And while my preference is for Mariota, same goes for Winston. _
He did look awful at times, but a sophomore that has virtually no running game, no weapons on the outside or an offensive line is going to struggle by default. I thought his bowl game was really impressive, this yr he needs to have a good yr or his stock is going to plummet. Not a HUGE fan of Hackenberg, but he's worthy of evaluating - he was really good his freshman yr. None of the QBs next year have the upside of a Winston or Mariota, but I think they have skill-sets that translate to the next level.
Yeah, you're the GM. I appreciate the response. If you are that high on Mariota's prospects, I can see where we disagree. I think he could be a good QB in time if in the right system, but I don't know that he'd ever be a top 10 QB. That's why I'd trade down and plug other holes in the team.
Neither QB will be there at 6 and Williams won't be either, might as well get that out of the way now.
Anyone at PSU is handicapped in evaluations by the penalties they got hit with. Hard to have a decent team when losing all those scholarships.
I wouldn't say Bledsoe, I would say more like Cutler. Hackenberg has sneaky athleticism, you won't see him scramble but he will move around a little bit in the pocket to try and buy himself some time. Each game I saw Hackenberg play, it was like he was getting sacked at least 3 or 4 times a game. Some of that is on the offensive line, some of that is on Hackenberg. There is no doubt, Hackenberg needs to mature more, and restore some of that confidence he had his freshman yr. But he's got good skill-sets that translate to the next level. He's got one hell of an arm. You will see at least 3 good pocket passers in next years' draft. I am a fan of the classic pocket passer that can move around in the pocket so both Hackenberg and Cook have my attention if we don't get Winston or Mariota this yr.
Bill O'Brien jumping ship def hurt Penn State's offense as well. It's hard for a QB to carry a team and expect success, that I agree with for sure.
I think you may be referring to facing and handling adversity. For the first half of the year Oregon's offensive line was completely decimated and Mariota was under constant pressure. How he handled that said a lot more than just struggling statistically early.
I think it was Cimini but he threw out the idea of a deal of Foles, 1st & 2nd this year, 1st & second next year. I think I'd take that.
Yeah, I have to be careful with my opinions here. I was high on Foles back two off seasons ago as someone the Jets should have tried to pry loose from Philly, and then he goes on to make me look smart having such a great year in 14. And there is an appeal to getting draft picks in a package from Philly. But the Jets have a ton of cap space, and can go that route to fill in the holes short term. If the new FO does a better job with draft picks, not an unreasonable prospect, then any vet Qb can hold the fort until Mariota is ready. I don't feel as strongly as you that ANY number of picks would not make a deal with Philly worth doing, but I won't argue that a reasonable number of picks by recent market standards is far from making it a no brainer to trade the 6 pick to Philly. And here's my new thinking. Mariota's ceiling is probably higher than Foles's. Given the history of the Jets, I think they take the chance on Mariota and dont look back. If the rest of the team was already put together, Foles would make more sense. And Foles is still a young guy. But building a team, build one around a guy with a higher ceiling. Take that risk, take that chance, and it ends up more likely to pay off with an SB than the more conservative route. I've been of the mind that we should be grateful for competitive seasons even if the team falls short. 9 and 10 were after all much better years to be a fan than the last four have been. But as time goes on, we really don't only want a Super Bowl. We need one. Still doubt Mariota falls, but I am coming around to your thinking on this. If he's there at 6, it would take an awfully good offer from Philly to make that trade.
The Eagles wouldn't try to trade with us. Unless they felt like purposely screwing themselves over anyway. Put yourself in their shoes- - if you want to trade up for a QB why try to make a trade with the one team in this world that is the most desperate for a QB??? They are just asking to pay a hefty price in that scenario. if* they want to make a move for Mariota, and if* he gets past Tennessee, they'd be trying to trade above us, not with us. This organization screwed themselves with the wins over Tennessee & Miami late in the year. Call me a bad fan if you want, but I'd much rather be holding more draft leverage now and have the assurance that we'd get the pick of at least 1 of the Mariota/Winston group than a ho hum win over Tennessee that we won't remember in a few months and a useless win over a Miami team just so the fired coach could have one last gatorade bath on his way out the door to a division rival.
That's it in a nutshell. You can build a team and fill holes through competent draft picks 2-7 and free agency. You have to luck into a great QB. _
Met a Jet fan today ( rare in VA) who is actually a much bigger college fan. He never liked Geno (watched him play in person on several occasions) but seems to be neutral on Mariota and loves Petty. I mentioned before on this board that I would be thrilled to take OLB, OL or WR with the 6 and sign Fitz then draft Petty in the second to hold a clip board for a year or two. Seems like the happy medium, drafting a QB but not with the 6 and at the same time getting a blue chip rookie in the first to build the team.
in the final 5 games of the 2013/2014 season Smith had a QBR of 97.9 which at that put him as the 5th highest rated QB in the NFL and things were certainly looking on the up, which is all you can hope for with a rookie - going into that draft Smith was originally considered a definite high first round pick and again, it would have been IMO a bad move for the Jets to have given up on him at that point - now given the play last season I absolutely think the Jets need to bring someone else in, but that was then and this is now.
He'd definitely need to hold the clipboard for a year or two. Petty said today at the combine that the senior bowl was the first time he ever had to call a play in the huddle. Nevermind taking a snap under the center and dropping back (which is another thing he needs to learn) this kid has never had to huddle up his teammates and spit out all the calls from the sideline. That's basic NFL football before the play even takes place! That's going to be a BIG transition, from running to the line after looking at symbols from the sideline with college friends to huddling up with seasoned NFL vets and remembering/ spitting out all the terminology. Nevermind the actual play on the field and all the shit he's going to have to learn
We're at the END of the season, not beginning, so 2 years ago, Winston had just won the Heisman. It isn't illogical. Check out Stokes post. He breaks down the comparison in completion percentage and TD-Interception ratio for both Cook and Hackenberg. Neither will have the 3-year record that Mariota had or the two year record that Winston had. As I said, if they shoot up the draft charts, it will be because they had one great year, or because it is a bad year for QBs, they are the best of a sorry lot, and NFL teams are desperate for QBs.
Yes, I meant 3. 'Twas a typo. Thanks for looking up Cooks and Hackenberg's stats. I didn't have time earlier. The only QB presently in college that I can see possibly being a great QB prospect is Cardale Jones, and who knows if his play was a freakish thing and if he'll be able to continue it, if he even starts for OSU next season.
