You can't do a pure stat side by side comparision without taking into account the rules changes and other changes to the game. Of the ones on that list Sanchez is arguably the worst.
so did O'Brien and he had more talented weapons, a weaker division and conference and better team around him yet he couldn't win a single playoff game but he has some nice highlights which seem to impress Jet fans.
One thing people forget about was the in the grasp rule of the 80s. In 1985 we had a good OL, Freeman McNeil ran for 1300+ yds on 4.5 YPC, O'Brien threw for almost 4,000 yds w/ 25 TDs and 8 INTs while being sacked 62 times on 488 attempts. Sounds bas on the surface but: -the in the grasp rule made it easier to sack QBs, basically if a QB was held for a fraction of a second they blew the whistle. -O'Brien would hold onto the ball looking for the big play and taking a sack rather than throwing it away which was why he was one of just 2 QBs to complete 60% of his passes that season. some of the games QBs that season: -Dave Krieg sacked 52 times -Joe Montana 35 times -Phil Simms 52 times -Tommy Kramer 39 -Ron Jaworksi 34 -Boomer 32 -Elway 38 -Moon 46 -Theismann 37 in only 11 games This was the game back then, this notion that we had a horrible OL and that is the excuse for Ken is 100% false.
thanks to Ken not being able to lead us to more pts. He led the Jets O to 13 pts that day and the lone TD was handing off to Freeman and watching him go on a long run. the D gave him numerous chances, he failed that day. If Ryan doesn't get hurt we win that game.
I take it back...if we remove Namath from the equation...considering he is an anomoly when it comes to Jets QB's...Vinny was statistically our best QB from a wins standpoint. However, Sanchez was second having won ONE more game than Chad. Now, if you factor in the entire package...reminder...removing Namath from the equation...Sanchez vaults to the top again simply because he has a far and away better playoff record than any Jets QB in history...ANY Jets QB. Sanchez holds a 4-2 mark in the playoffs compared to Namath at 2 - 1, Pennington at 2-3, Todd at 2-2, Testaverde at 1-2 and O'brien at 0-2. As well, Sanchez did it without a single HOF player or marquee offensive weapon on any of his teams. (Revis maybe in years to come). Both Pennington and Testaverde had Curtis Martin and a mixture of either on the docket HOF lineman or future ones (Faneca & Mawae). Todd and O'Brien had HOF Defensive talent and well..Namath...it goes without saying. Trust me, I'm not a Sanchez apologist by any stretch of the imagination but some of you have clearly forgotten how bad it was in the 70's, 80's and most of the 90's. The Jets were a single step above Tampa as the NFL whipping boys. We literally went from Griese to Marino to Kelly to Brady... Think about that. FOUR Hall of Fame QB's in our division...since the mid 70's right on up to today...and the best the NY Jets have trotted out is Mark F'n Sanchez. I mean...it's all about the wins baby...and Sanchez sits exactly 3 wins behind Testaverde...all time...and he spanks him in the playoff dept. <sigh> Boy, I hope we get it right at some point. Edit...Sanchez DID have Ladanian Tomlinson on the downside of his career. I guess that has to count.
I just wanted to point out how comical it is that nyjunc is claiming we had a "good" offensive line while simultaneously mentioning that our QB got sacked 20% more than the 2nd most sacked quarterback in the league, while forgetting to mention that our entire third down Joe Walton offense was screen passes and draw plays (plays where the QB never gets hit). It's shake-my-head laughingly funny. BTW, here's our Dream Team offensive line in 1985 (that led the league in sacks surrendered) ... LT - Jim Sweeney (played 2 years at LT, then they moved him to C because he couldn't play LT) LG - Ted Banker (played 6 years in the league, 2 as a starter) C - Joe Fields (started half the season due to injury, this was his final year in the league as a starting center, tried playing one more year at guard then he retired) C - Guy Bingham (started half the season, played one more half-season in his career as a starter, journeyman backup) RG - Dan Alexander (played in the league forever, he was below average his entire career, this was his best season) RT - Reggie McElroy (started half the season due to injury, played less than half his career as a starter, journeyman backup) RT - Gordon King (started half the season, played two seasons as a starter, journeyman backup)
I voted for O'Brien but would put Vinny third. As much love as Pennington gets on this site I thought Vinny would be a little closer to him in the voting.
It's not close. Pennington was my second favorite all time Jet (I named my dog after him), Vinny had the best year ever for a Jet QB and I was a huge Sanchez supporter. Ken O'Brien was the second best New York Jet QB in franchise history. _
This is kind of like putting an arbor over an outhouse isn't it? I came up with that one myself by the way..... I say Vinnie. At least since I've been a fan. Alcorn State has a better list to choose from.
In 1985 when he was sacked 62 times only Reggie McElroy missed more than 2 games. In 1986 we had a banged up OL but he was sacked 22 less times in about the same # of attempts. Blame the OL I guess but it was amazing how much better the O looked in the playoffs w/ Pat Ryan then how poorly the O looked again when Ryan got hurt w/ the same OL. I want to point out how comical it is that adults cannot read. Reggie McElroy started 11 games at LT that year Jim Sweeney was our primary LG Joe Fields started 15 games Marvin Powell was our starter at LT You are confusing 1985 with 1986. By the way w/ that beat up OL in 1986 he was sacked 22 less times than 1985. we ended season on 5 game losing streak w/ O averaging 9.4 PPG, Ken was sacked 17 times in 176 attempts. 1 every 10.4 attempts playoff game vs. KC w/ same OL and new QB? O scored 28 pts, Ryan sacked 2 times. playoff game at Cle Ryan led O to 7 pts in qtr, O'Brien led O to 13 pts in 5 qtrs. http://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/26/sports/o-brien-learning-to-avoid-the-sack.html Your little chart was cute, I chuckled. You should have quit while you were ahead.
I like to win so for me Mark is near the top. You like pretty passes and losing so we all have our own criteria. Can't put a guy at #2 or ahead of Mark that had the most talent around him in weakest era of AFC football and couldn't win a single playoff game. Tony Eason led a less talented Pats team to a SB and Ken couldn't win a single playoff game. List of some of the AFC QBs to win playoff games in Ken's Jets era 1983-1992: Tony Eason Dave Krieg Mark Malone Pat Ryan(w/ O'Brien's team) Bubby Brister Jay Schroeder Steve DeBerg Stan Humphries Not a single one of those QBs had more talent around them than Ken O'Brien and Ryan had the same talent and did in 1 game what Ken couldn't do in a decade+.
I don't know, Ryan never really had a chance to be a long term starter. he led us to 6-2 in 1984 before he got banged up and we finished 7-9 w/ Ken, he led us to our only playoff win btw 1983 and 1997. Looking back I wish he had a chance to be a starter but he was a great backup.
