Completely fair rebuttal although I don't fully agree. The rest of his drafts have sucked. Moose cock. Not saying a player or three won't pan out but the opportunity lost was criminal. _
This post lacks too much logic. I get the point about waiting past 9, up to a point. But that analysis still does not support the view that Idzik was the one primarily behind getting Richardson. Your own second paragraph contemplates that as being the scenario. While we don't know for an absolute certainty that Richardson was Ryan's choice, all info I have heard to date suggests that was the case. Plus it makes sense it was. We also need to acknowledge Idzik picked Milliner, and when he did, to replace Revis. Finally I think you overstate Milliner's standing in the draft as a prospect. If he really should have been a top three pick, wh did he fall to 9? And of course Milliner has that pesky injury history. Your point is not much of one.
More significant than this Idzik and his first round picks in 13 is this going forward argument. Yes, I do not know what is supposed to be meant by "growing". Imo the younger players on this team are not impressive as a group. No more than your average NFL roster, for example, which shold be the relevant metric. The core of the team is a real concern. I am not even sure who qualifies anymore beyond Wilkerson, Richardson and (still) Mangold. Arguably Ferguson, a perenial core member, might generously be included there, and he does start at a critical position. But he is not the player he was, not at all, and is at risk of falling into the below average range for those at his position. How can such a player be considered a core player? A better candidate is Harrison. But do we even know whehter the Jets can and should retain all of Wilkerson, Richardson and also Harrison. They probably will all be on the roster for the coming season, but there is reason to question that after next season. Harris imo is more likely to be gone than stay, and I question whether he still is a core player. On the other hand Davis perhaps has or will taken his place there. But not yet, I think. other than by default. Given the team's situation and the market at the time, I liked the Decker signing, and for the most part still do. But is he a core player? Hard to make a convincing argument that he is. On a brighter note I would argue Ivory is a better candidate to be considered a core player. Although some might think I give him too much credit. Meanwhile the Jets currently have players including at key positions, who not only are not core, but who are well below the NFL average. No, the Jets do not have a good core of players right now.
You disagreed with me, but in a respectful way. I appreciate that. And I do agree with you that Idzik made a lot of mistakes, most notably letting Cro walk and not replacing him last year. Like I said I'm not trying to defend him. I wish everyone on this board understood how to have a civil, respectful debate like you do. (I'm thinking of one poster in particular who likes to hurl insults when he disagrees with someone's opinion ... he's caused "Problems" on "Mo" occasions than one).
So why do you keep spewing this Carr and Teddy shit? Your have said multiple times that Idzik passed on two franchise qb's only to take Pryor. But none of us KNEW whether either one was going to BE a franchise QB, and we still don't.
Point #2 from the OP is just silly If Idzik was a good drafter, what would it take to be considered bad? With the Sheldon Richardson draft, Idzik had just arrived and basically all the scouting "hay was in the barn." It wasn't until this year's draft that Idzik decided put his own personal stamp on things, and it was an abject failure. He was spotted on the road personally scouting Amaro. And he himself told the story behind the Calvin Pryor pick, how he was in the stands "scouting" the Louisville-UCF game. Receivers Idzik passed on: Brandin Cooks Kelvin Benjamin Jordan Matthews Donte Moncrief Marqise Lee Allen Robinson John Brown Receivers Idzik drafted: Jalen Saunders Shaq Evans Quincy Enunwa The cherry on top of everything is that Pryor wasn't even the best safety available when Idzik stupidly took him. Clinton-Dix is a playmaker in GB.
Teddy was regarded as the best QB prospect in 2014 prior to the draft process where teams over-thought themselves and thought because Bridgewater was a little frail that he wasn't franchise QB worthy. I think a lot of fans here thought very highly of Bridgewater. I think Teddy could become a top 10 QB a few years down the line. I would have taken Bridgewater over Pryor 9 out of 10 times. We would be in much better shape with Bridgewater IMO.
Actually Calvin Pryor and HaHa Clinton-Dix were 1a and 1b at safety in that draft. Some preferred Pryor, some Clinton-Dix. When Idzik drafted him, all the analysts were raving about what a great pick Pryor was. So we can't second guess it now using the benefit of hindsight, can we? (not to mention the fact that both of those players are still rookies, they haven't even played one game in their 2nd seasons yet! WAY too early to pass judgement on that pick)
For one thing, not all the analysts were raving about the pick and even if they were what does that matter. It may be too early to pass judgment on Pryor the player, that's a fair take as he could develop, but we actually have some results to look at after year 1 and so far they are not good. Pryor struggled and Clinton-Dix and many others available at the time looked great. We should wait to acknowledge on-the-field results because some prognosticators thought Pryor was a good pick back in april?
Because I lied. I DO know they will both be franchise QBs. But even if I didnt--which I do--both of those guys are much better pure QBs than our current QB and each have ten times the football IQ. You take those guys over a safety because QB is the most important position in all of organized sports and we have a flawed one. Getting a franchise QB is the ONLY thing that matters. Not safetys and WRs and RBs and Olineman and OLBs and CBs and TEs and head coaches and coordinators and GMs. He fucked up when he believed the mirage of Geno's epic last 4 games and couldn't admit to his mistake. He passed on two guys that could have saved the franchise. _
I hadn't started drinking when I made that post. Just got to LaGuardia and am enjoying a double Grey Goose prior to my flight. Strong post to follow. _
I think you went a little too far here. The bold I 100% disagree on. The coaching staff must still taylor the offense to the QBs strengths, if you cannot do that you are pretty much Colin Kaerpernick in 2014, a QB with high potential that wasn't put in the spot to succeed. The GM must still have a plan in place for the young QB, to optimize the offense.
I do tend to exaggerate but no GM has ever tackled anyone, no coach has ever completed a pass. Would you rather have the QB or the FO? End of the day, I'm choosing the QB. _
Well you did remind me of something....come to think of it, Clinton-Dix was considered the better player throughout his college career, but Pryor leapfrogged him in the hype and overanalysis leading up to the draft. In the weeks and months before the draft, people get blinded by combine results (players running around by themselves in shorts and T-shirts, basically), bogus off-field rumors, etc, and they forget who the better players were during actual college games. That's a big reason there are so many busts in the draft. (Stephen Hill anyone?) That might have been what happened with those 2 players.
I don't normally defend Idzik because he doesn't deserve it, but your comment is just lazy. Amaro was a great prospect and he is going to be a great player; in fact, I bet he will be a better receiver than half of the guys you mentioned who Idzik passed on, perhaps everyone except Kelvin and Matthews. Plus, if Idzik had drafted Kelvin in the first round he would have been lambasted by Jets fans for getting Stephen Hill 2.0. Next, Pryor is a better player than Clinton Dix who was forced into playing out of position. Not only was Pryor ranked significantly higher than Clinton Dix by PFF, but he played most of the year at Rex's version of FS when we all know he is more suited for our starting SS. Give Amaro and Pryor some time before criticizing them. I bet they will both be core members of our starting lineup next year and for years to come. If anything, criticize Idzik for every drafted player other than Pryor and Amaro IMO.
The thing that stands out about the 2014 draft was how many leaps the Jets took from the 3rd round on. It was like Fantasy Island from the Amaro pick right down to the late rounds. In that respect it looked like a lot of other Jets drafts of the last decade with the difference being that the Jets made all their picks in 2014 whereas Tannenbaum was trading like crazy to get away from having to exercise the Jets later picks in most drafts before that. You trade your 3rd and 5th round picks over and over again when you think the list you're being handed is utter shit and not worth anything.
At the end of the day, you still need good talent evaluators in the FO to go out and get players to help the QB. There are 5 QBs in this league right now that make everyone around him better [Brady, Luck, Brees, Peyton, Rodgers]. You still need a FO that has a vision and can create a short-term and long-term plan. Luck is on a bad team right now, sure he is carrying that franchise but how long is that going to last on this team before Luck gets frustrated? That's why Mark didn't succeed here, even though he was never an elite QB - he was sufficient enough for us to win. I'll take the good front office, because the FO will go out and get that QB and put pieces around that QB.
