We don't need an Andrew Luck, I agree. I would gladly settle for a Russell Wilson. I honestly wish Cook had came out this year. At least then we would basically be guaranteed to get one of Mariota or Cook. I like Cook more so than Hackenberg. Hackenberg kind of scares me at this point, hopefully he changes my mind this upcoming season. Hackenberg was better his freshman year but not by much. 2955 yds his freshman yr vs 2977 Soph year. 20/10 TD/INT vs 12/15 58.9 comp % vs 55.8 Nothing about any of those numbers jump out to me. The fact that he hasn't had a completion % over 58.9 is very troubling as well. I get that he's only a sophomore and he looks like he could be a solid QB in the league but he has just as far, if not farther, to go than Mariota IMO. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kind of glad Cook didn't come out this year, if the stars are aligned for us, I would love to grab Cooper this yr and Cook the next. Cook still has some work in regards to his footwork but the foundation is there for him to be a very good NFL QB. 20TDs to 10INTs v 12TDs to 15INTs isn't a huge difference? I am going to have to disagree there. When Hackenberg had talent around him, he was successful. He had a very impressive bowl game this year. That said, I like Cook far more than Hackenberg. If I had a choice between the 2 it's Cook no questions asked. That bowl game against Baylor really showed me something about Cook, despite having a sub-par game, he led his team down the field in the end and got the W. Seems to me, with Cook you are almost never out of the game. He makes some amazing throws. Cook's accuracy should be better next yr when he works on that footwork in the pocket. He doesn't have a farther road then Mariota, because again Mariota has no experience in a pro-style system and hasn't established any fundamentals in regards to being a pocket passer. We shall see what happens, but I don't think Mariota is great because of the #s he generated.
While I wouldn't be mad if your scenario plays out, I think we could do basically the same thing this year and be better off. Instead of Cooper at 6, take Mariota, and then take Jaelen Strong in Rd 2. I like Strong, he's a big, athletic WR that would complement Decker well IMO. It's also not too outlandish that he could slip to us in Rd 2. It's easy to support your argument when you cherry pick stats. What about his yardage and completion %? Very, very close. Especially the yardage. I did say he was better his freshman year, just not by much, and I think the stats I presented support that stance. Sounds like we are in agreement on the Cook/Hackenberg order. We do disagree on how far MM and CC have to go, and that's fine. To each his own. I just don't see Cook as being anywhere close to a finished product, despite the fact that he's playing in a pro-style offense. Mariota isn't close to a finished product either, which is why I said I think they have roughly the same road ahead of them. Both would need to sit for about a year before I felt comfortable putting them on the field. Also, stop trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. Mariota isn't a pocket passer, period. If you're trying to convert him to a pocket passer then yes he has a longer road than Cook, but why in the world would you want to do that? I'm not saying I want him to be RG3 and run the read option 90% of the time, but Russell Wilson seems to be doing just fine for himself without being strictly a pocket passer. I am also not basing my judgement of Mariota solely on the stats he's put up in his career. Of course they play into it but they're not the only reason I think he'll be successful.
I wouldn't mind a Mariota / Strong combination (if Strong is even there in Rd2). I think Strong is a lot better then people give him credit for. I personally believe he's better than Kevin White. Strong has got REALLLY good hands, he's got a great catch radius, he's a RZ threat - I think Strong has a very good chance of going in the 1st round. Kevin White is more explosive. Stats are great n all, but at the end of the day - Hackenberg wasn't turning the ball like he did his freshman year, at times, this yr Hackenberg looked lost out there. There was no running game, and I don't know many of the receivers @ Penn State. No one came even close to filling the void left by Allen Robinson. Tough for a sophomore to carry a team. God that offensive line for Penn State was bad. Cook by all means is not a finished product, but his strengths: Effortless throwing motion, STRONG arm, can make throws in extremely tight windows. The last 2 things, Mariota is not. His arm isn't as strong as Cook and Mariota cannot make throws in tight windows. We saw that when Oregon played Ohio State. The layout foundation is there for Cook from here you build on his skill-sets and watch him thrive. Mariota isn't a pocket passer, I agree - my preference in QBs is being a pocket passer, the amount of rushes Mariota had in college, you can't do that at the next level - he won't survive so to pro-long your career you MUST be good at operating in the pocket, you HAVE to develop that. That could take Mariota 1 or 2 yrs to grasp that concept. Look at Cam Newton, far bigger then Mariota and he's already breaking down. You got Kaepernick, he can't even make multiple reads it's either first read or run. I fear Mariota is the same way. RG3 can't operate in the pocket at all, none of those QBs progressed in that department. Wilson the special thing about him is he can operate in the pocket and even so, he scrambles to create more oppurtunities to throw the ball where-as Mariota is going to run down the field. Wilson also ran the pro offense and has a VERY strong arm. Again, under specific circumstances, I would take Mariota but there are other players I think I would choose over him.
Glad to know someone else is on the Jaelen Strong bandwagon! Hey, you're not going to get an argument from me about Penn St. I realize that they were awful this year, I just expected better stats from Hackenberg. The fact that I didn't see what I thought I would is a little concerning. he does have potential though, there's no doubt about that. Cook may have a slightly stronger arm but I don't think it's by all that much. He can hit the throws in tight windows, so I'll give you that. My only thing with him is, if he's such a great thrower why can't he get his completion percentage over 58%? He was 75th this year in terms of comp % in CFB, does that scream future franchise QB? It's not like he's surrounded by a bunch of scrubs either, Michigan State finished 5th in the final AP poll, so he clearly had talent around him. A lot of his comp % struggles stem from his footwork I think, but that is still one of the reasons I think he's got quite the road ahead of him to become successful in the league. I doubt there have been a lot of QB's that had a comp% of 58% in their 3rd season and went on to become successful QB's. I didn't look that up so I could very easily be wrong about this though, so if I am, I apologize. I understand why you'd rather have a traditional pocket passer back there, but I want a guy who can stand in the pocket and make the throws but also escape the pocket when need be to either extend the play or gain a few yards before sliding or ducking out of bounds. As I said before, I don't want Mariota to run the read option 90% of the time, he probably wouldn't last 2 years in that scenario, but I'm sure as hell not going to try and make him sit in the pocket the whole game. You're wasting his natural talent that way. I honestly see Mariota as more of a Wilson than either Newton or Kap. I think he's smart enough to understand when to run and when to extend the play and take a big shot down the field. I just think Mariota is the real deal. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, only time will tell.
Someone please tell me what's good about Hackenberg? I haven't seen any PSU games recently, but his stats are pretty shitty. Someone fill me in.
He's not. He a big strong immobile inaccurate QB. Did I mention he's big and strong? First round BABY! Oooof. _
His stats the past year reflect a coaching change, learning a new system, losing half of his OL and his star receiver to the NFL Draft. In the Pinstripe Bowl he showed what he is capable of. High football IQ, throws with touch and makes NFL throws, has a strong if not the strongest arm in the nation. He'll have a much better year stats wise coming up, he is only 19. I think he will end up staying two more years.
I disagree with your first sentence. You can probably teach a chimpanzee to take snaps from under center. So those guys can take a snap from under center. Do they have the football IQ, decision making, ability to read Ds, accuracy, leadership, poise and athleticism of Mariota? No. Most of those things that can't be taught/learned. You either have them or you don't. Anyone with athleticism and a modicum of intelligence can learn to take snaps from under center and work on their footwork/drops.
I never said I thought he couldn't learn those things. I believe he will, which is why I want the Jets to take him so badly. I just don't see how anyone can disagree with that statement. Clearly it's going to require more work when you take a QB from a spread offense than one who ran a pro-style offense in college. It's not like I'm saying any QB that ran a spread in college is awful and won't work out. I just think it requires more work for them in the pros as opposed to QB's that come from a more traditional offense.
I know that you like Mariota. My issues was agreeing that Mariota would take more work to be ready to start in the NFL. IMO it doesn't matter that those other QBs have played in a NFL-type offense. They don't have the talent and skills that Mariota has and they could practice until pigs fly and they'd never have his skills or talent. Therefore, it makes no difference that they can already take snaps from under center and know an NFL-type offense. They can't produce like Mariota on the field, so it doesn't matter. That's my point.
Holy shit. I don't think you've met the Connor Cook team. Apparently a superior talented high IQ work a holic is less desirable than a stilted bumbling 58% college completion QB than Mariota. Because he's taken snaps from under center as a 20 year old. Against other 20 year olds. Who will never be in the NFL. _
I don't think you've met the Marcus Mariota team Apparently, he's the last franchise QB that will be available in the next 15 years. His comparison is a mobile Eli Manning. Oh yeah, I mean if you don't complete 60% of your passes in college, you will suck in the NFL. It's a given. Nice, still don't understand the importance of fundamentals, Tim Duncan would be ashamed of you.
Who said Cook was going to suck in the NFL? I'm actually rooting for him this year--I want to see a big improvement. The reason why I watched him this year and while I'll be keenly watching him next year is because of you. I'm just not ready to pass on Mariota or trade the pick on the hopes that we are guaranteeing ourselves to get a guy next year who has been undewhelming at the college level so far. If he was already a 65% completion guy like a Mariota or Teddy or Carr or Winston--then yeah I'd be intrigued. He has some skill but I'm not yet intrigued and it's not worth the gamble now. YOU seem to think if you haven't been asked to do something in college you CAN'T do it in the NFL. It's a given, right? Reading is fundamental. Margaret McNamara would be ashamed of you. _
Getting a guy who can catch the ball is great. Getting the guy who can get the guy who catches the ball "the ball" is even greater. If Tom Brady can be passed up in favor of 198-odd other prospects then we obviously know there is no guarantee one way or another. But if you're going to 'hit' on a draft pick big-time and are possibly in position with the 6th pick to pull the trigger on it, what better position to do so than with the QB position? If Mark Sanchez was worth the #5 pick (and players to get that pick - though the Jets were able to do it pretty much on the cheap), then Marcus Mariotta is certainly worth the 6th pick. I'm only saddened by the prospect that I don't think he'll last until the 6th pick. Tampa Bay's gonna snap him up. But what if he were available at #6? Instead of Geno Smith and some middling-at-best veteran or some statuesque (very) poor man's version of Drew Bledsoe in Mike Glennon, imagine heading into the 2015 training camp with Marcus Mariotta. If nothing else, imagine that buzz, that "hope" that maybe, just maybe, our QB ship has finally come in. It's worth that #6 pick imho. ---"get marcus!"
Yea because you're THE authority on QB evaluations. No thanks, I'd rather listen to a failed source that at least has some credentials in the industry.
This is a huge year from Hackenberg. He should have some better players around him, which will help him big time. I like Jared Goff though. He's a tall guy who will put on weight this year and next. If we dont address QB this year, Goff would probably be my choice for next year.
This is a board about opinions--basically guesses by fans and not professional scouts or NFL media types. I really don't care if you listen to me or not. _
In 3.years 2016 will be thought of as the year a bunch of teams wished they had taken a chance on Bryce Petty. Two teams will bake it out for the best QB available and they along with 6 teams will beat their heads against the wall wondering why they didn't grab that guy in the 4th round of 2015
