The point where you don't have to question your own integrity. When you are not forced to ask your self if that was the right way to play the game. The play to you and to many was brilliant and in keeping with the officiating, apparently they raised no brow toward it either. I think it was cheap, spread the defense out and then pass it to a wide open uncovered LT that was declared eligible under 10 seconds before the ball was snapped. That is the way the game is meant to be played I guess.
We can go on and on. I'm 30. Belli got exactly what he wanted on Saturday. He set up a deceiving play with about 7 seconds for the Ravens to make an adjustment. He had 3 receivers on the right and 2 receivers on the left. The middle receiver of the 3 on the right declared ineligible, the LT (on the left) declared eligible. Now you have 3 receivers on the left (according to this play) and only 2 receivers on the right. A play designed solely for the purpose of catching opponent on obscure technicality that has never been played in the entire history of the NFL. This is the way football was meant to be played, this is the kind of football we should all get use to and enjoy watching.
You can hear the stadium announcer proclaim 34 ineligible at around 39 seconds in. It was announced in time for the announcer, just too speedy for poor Harbaugh to process...
I don't consider him in the backfield, but he is a full 2 yards behind the football, the LOS is the 24 yard line, his forward foot is on the 26. The average player can lay down full body length between the line the football is on and Gronks forward foot. It's certainly weird that he is inside of what is technically the right tackle. Never denied its deception, but football is mostly about deception. When wide receivers line up in the backfield its deception. End arounds and triple options are deceptive. Flea Flicker, double passes, triple passes (I've only seen a small handful of those, one example 2007 vs steelers, Brady throws backwards to Moss, who promptly drops it (a fumble), throws it backwards to Brady, who throws it deep to Gaffney for a TD). They're all plays designed with the intent to create confusion for the defense. Deceptive. You never play football wanting the defense to know what you plan. The rules are vague and state that at least 7 players must be on the LOS and everyone lined up inside of the "ends" on the LOS are ineligible. Gronk was not on the line, therefor a legal pass catcher by definition of the rules. While he didn't appear in the backfield, by rule anyone not on the LOS is considered "in the backfield" just at variable depths. The backfield has just become more of a general term to refer to behind the OL next to the QB or behind the QB.
I heard the call as the Pats line up to take the snap about 23 seconds left on the play clock. I only heard that #34 was ineligible. I did not hear #47 declared eligible. The snap comes at about 16seconds on the play clock. Ravens had roughly 7 seconds to adjust. Has anyone here ever seen a wide receiver (Gronk in this play) line up in the slot and still be inside the RT? I contend that no one has ever seen that in the NFL, save maybe special teams "garbage" formation. The play worked exactly as it was designed, to fool the Ravens defense into thinking it was a 5 receiver set; well played I guess.
I've definitely never seen it, though I'm seeing a few things on twitter that the JAGs used this same 4 OL formation this season which may be where BB saw it. I'm interested for the info to come out on their formation and see how they ran it and how the defense reacted. So I guess just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't been done, these things can very easily get lost in the football abyss of Florida.
I meant that the wildcat formation was introduced in 1998 in the NFL. 16 years later, you don't have the same disdain for that deception as you do for this deception. This is the way the game is supposed to be played. Confuse the hell out of your opponent. Create mismatches. Put yourself in position to win football games. Additionally, each of the plays gave the Ravens 7-10 seconds before the snap. If you need more time than that to line up, you shouldn't be playing in the NFL.
I heard that Alabama ran it this year in OT against LSU. Makes sense with Saban and Belichick being close.
Thanks for all the details. I don't think this is the way the game was meant to be played. It was a nice wild card played by Belli. I fully expect there to be a new rule shortly that prevents a receiver from lining up in the slot inside a tackle. I'm interested to hear more about the JAGs formation, and I still believe New England got away with illegal formation on Saturday. That formation, and the cadence by which the call was played, is not the way gentleman play a game of football.
This is the problem. When called on it, you admit that it wasn't illegal and then you post crap like this. Unless you are talking about another play, this is NOT an illegal formation.
Deception is one of my favorite parts of the game, maybe that's part of the reason why I jumped on this case. To me, the most important note is that a formation like this has never been done before. Smart, yup; brilliant, maybe; cheap, probably. I don't believe this was a play called in good faith, and in turn questions the integrity of the game. This was a loophole that was better off being called illegal formation. I believe other officiating crews would have called this illegal formation, solely for the fact that the formation was the first of its kind. You and I have never seen a receiver line up in the slot and still be inside the tackle. I don't think we will ever see it again either; not in the NFL. The play reeks of desperation and locating a technicality to bend the rules in ones favor.
Anyone interested in another "deceptive" formation can look up "swinging gate" on youtube... or you'll probably see Oregon use it tonight. The idea that this is somehow more dishonest than a fake hand-off is ridiculous. This entire conversation is pathetic.... deception is part of football. It's also part of what makes it so amazing. Learn the game. Don't make the game dumb down to your level. This makes the CENTER eligible for a downfield pass. 7 linemen down, 2 ends are eligible.
Maybe the NFL should require each team to submit for approval all plays and sets they will use for each game so every opponent knows what to expect. We don't want anyone to be confused or deceived by what they are facing.
The problem with what the Pats did was not the deception but doing it in a hurry up offense not allowing the Defense to identify who the eligible receiver were. This is why ineligible players need to identify themselves and also this is why this instance was so much like what the jets did to the Colts in 2006 when Mangini got caught cheating exploiting late substitutions. While I agree what Mangini did was far worse as he not only did it all game and it violated the agreement between coaches not to do late substitutions not allowing the defense to do the same. But the same principle applys to the Pats like Mangini was using a loophole to violate the intent of the rule. When Mangini did it the League took immediate action and changed the rules before the next game. If he used 4 OL and gave the defense time to hear who was ineligible and identify the eligible players there would be no problem. The problem here is they did not have the time and the reason the play worked so well was because he used a hurry up offense. It;s a cheap tactic that lacks ingrity and class. to be fair the same should be said for what the Jets and Mangini did in 2006. This is just another example of the division between people that believe winning at all costs is acceptable and those that believe that it is even more important to live ones life with honor and integrity. That losing while playing on an equal playing field is much better than winning by trickery or deception. Football is and should be about knocking people down and imposing ones will not finding loopholes in rules.
LOL What loophole? The rules clearly state that receivers are only eligible if they are on the line and the farthest out or if you start behind the line of scrimmage. I don't care if they go shotgun and everyone is spread equally distant from the next person. As long as 7 are on the line and 4 aren't, it's the defense's job to figure it out on their own.
The reason behind the rule that players identify themselves as ineligible and eligible is so that defense can identify them and not to be tricked. This works all well and fine until a team uses a hurry up offense to prevent the defense from being to identify the eligible players like the Pats did on Saturday essentially nullifying the rule. The rule is designed to prevent teams being tricked. But here the Pats used a loophole to get around the intent of the rule. Just as when Mangini used late substitutions to not allow the defense to substitute against the Colts in 2006 to get around the intent of the rule. In that case the league immediately acted and and codified a rule preventing Mangini from cheating again. While what the Pats did was not as bad it is still abusing the rules and violating the intent of the rules. It would be nice to see the league act like they did in 2006 and fix the problem.
This is not true. The ref announces over the PA that 34 is ineligible between 8 and 10 seconds before the ball is snapped on each play. In fact, on the 2nd or 3rd one lthe ref looks at the Ravens D and says "Don't cover this guy he's ineligible" The Pats went to the refs before the game and told them they were going to use this formation sometime during the game, so they would be ready for it. You fucking guys would be throwing a parade for Rexy if he ever came up with something like this.
