Hmm, Maybe Randy Moss on NE...Maybe The Greatest Show on Turf...Maybe Jerry Rice and John Taylor...Michael Irvin and that other guy on the Cowboys...And then there's TE, which is basically a WR only bigger. I think winning teams have size and speed at the WR position. Anyone watching the Jets WRs should see the value of an elite WR. The only success the team has had recently was with Holmes and Edwards at the WR position. No, having elite talent at WR if you don't have a good blocking OL or a semblance of a running game is not going to matter. But having an advantage at the WR means that defenses have to respect that and devote resources/gameplans to stop it. It's a high-impact position, IMO.
New England didn't win a Superbowl with Moss. So you have to go back 15 years or more to Rams, or 49ers or Cowboys. The last 15 years, pretty much not a single truly elite WR with a ring. But it's more than that, even when elite WRs do well sometimes, which is pretty rare, it's because they have a really good QB throwing to them, and that really good QB would probably have success without them. Like Brady with Moss, or Kurt Warner in Arizona with Fitzgerald, or Peyton Manning with Demariyus Thomas. As far as Holmes and Edwards, that IS my point, neither Holmes nor Edwards were elite WRs, they were good WRs in their prime, and we were just fine with them. Likewise if we had the same offensive line that we did in 2009-10, Decker and Harvin would be just fine as far as WRs go. You don't need elite WRs, you can make do with just good ones, as history shows. So I see no reason to spend a top 5 pick on one unless he is just miles ahead in talent of any other position and we can't trade down.
I think the Jets are still at a significant speed deficit. MAYBE we win significantly more with Harvin and Decker. But, really, Decker to me is crap. He doesn't actually cause enough of a mismatch. Holmes and Edwards caused mismatches. So, to me, your definition of "elite" seems to be only self-serving. An Elite WR causes mismatches and THAT is what is worth something. There are plenty of elite WRs that I didn't mention. I focused on the NAME elite WRs when there are plenty of others. And, sorry, but saying that it requires a QB to throw to seems specious since they are required to be targets for a QB. It's symbiotic relationship where each is dependent on the other, no?
Not sure what you mean by causes mismatches. Harvin has been getting open on the outside plenty of times and gets massive yardage whenever Geno is accurate, and Decker had no trouble getting open against Revis in the first NE game. Those guys are just as good as Holmes and Edwards, but have somewhat different playing styles. My definition of "elite WR" is basically the cream of the crop at the position, guys who combine excellent size, speed, hands, and route running. Sometimes a WR can be elite without one of those things, but then they have to just blow you away with the others in order to compensate, but generally they have all four attributes. I don't think anyone thought Santonio Holmes or Braylon Edwards were elite WRs belonging in the same tier as Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Brandon Marshall, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Dez Bryant, etc. As far as your last point, I am not saying it requires a QB to throw, I am saying you can find many examples of QBs having team success without elite WRs, but almost none of WRs having team success without elite QBs. Brady doesn't need Moss to be successful, but Moss needs Brady. Same with Warner and Fitzgerald, Roethlesberger and Brown, Manning and Thomas.
Mariotta is playing against college students and coaches who only see that offense about one time a year at most.....and Oregon hasnt produced a single NFL QB in recent times. Mariotta can beat up on unprepared defenses that are tired, and are using college students who go to class all week, but for him to come into the NFL and fit into another type of offense, impossible. Drafting Mariotta in the first three rounds would be a mistake. The guy is nothing more than a backup in the NFL......
Milcus is right. He is not worth a 3rd round pick. If you are a backup in the NFL then you are barely worth a 4th rounder. Im sure guys like Ej Manuel or Geno Smith would drop to the 5th or 6th round if they were in this years draft, because they have zero value..... same applies to Mariotta.
@soxxx Neither has Florida State (Ponder and EJ Manuel don't count), I have no idea why you continue to bring up this point, it's meaningless. Evaluate the prospect not the school. Mariota's offense limits him, but when watching his games , from the broadcast camera at least, I see several traits that can translate to the NFL level.
Oh yeah, let's snag another defensive player. Have you not seen how awful this offense is? Is that you Rex?
It won't translate, I am telling ya man. I am not rooting against the guy either, I just don't see it working..... And I dont want to turn this into a Manziel-Mariotta contrast topic but Manziel is another one, is absolutely struggling and I could see the same thing happening to Mariotta... It seems like 80% of these top draft QBs just dont translate...
People don't want to hear it, but the guy best suited for a pro-offense is Winston. Now, whether or not he has the right stuff between the ears to handle being a franchise QB is another matter entirely.
My money is on Winston also. I think he will be able to play in the NFL as a starter. Might be like a Stafford or potentially a Roethlisberger but a lot better than what the Jets have had, and certainty someone you can win games with.
Won't go that far, but I definitely have more question marks on Mariota than I do Winston. More and most of my questions for Winston contain the words "off the field."
You do a background check, thats what you do. The Jets will have to pay for an investigation into this guy, as will other teams looking to draft him potentially.
My fear about Winston is that there is evidence that he did gamble on that Louisville game (or his friend did but he point shaved for the halftime score), and that whoever has evidence is holding on to it. Imagine drafting him only for that story to come out with evidence? my god..........
He's more suited for it, because he has more experience under the system. Winston's experience in college won't matter three years from now, once Mariota grasps the pro system. Winston still has several flaws on the field from a mechanical stand to a mental standpoint. 90% of Winston's interceptions this year came, because he made poor reads(such as not identifying the Mike and misreading coverage), and he reverted to crappy mechanics esrly in games , such as continuing to drop his elbow on his release, and throwing off his back foot. I'm not sure if Winston doesn't see the field well, or if he's just a poor decision maker, but he's not the polished prospect posters here and in the media make him out to be. Like Mariota, Winston is not a plug and play rookie, in my opinion. I'm not saying he can't or won't be good, I think he'll be very good, but I just believe that if Mariota is given more time, he'll become a better player than Winston.
Interesting. Fair enough. Personally, I'd love to have either of them. I just want another chance at drafting a good quarterback.
I think they'll both be very good, but Winston and Mariota are going to need time. I'm just hoping, that the next coaching staff actually has experience in developing Quarterbacks , and offense in general. We can't afford to miss on another Quarterback.
