I will ask you the same questions as bb. How can you be so sure right now,that vick is going to be better.? We are talking about a 2nd year player who just finished his first 16 games vs a 33 year old qb who was never been a student of the game,relies on athleticism and has a pretty low comp %. I am not saying geno is going to win but the competition might be a lot closer than some are making it out to be. I.m.o.
Nah Vick was brought in to push Geno. The front office and coaching staff believes in Geno but at the same time they just don't want to hand him the starting job. He wasn't good enough to have been given the starting job. So they brought in a veteran QB that doesn't need a lot of reps, so that way Geno can get as much reps as he can get. Vick knows the offense so if Geno stinks Vick can step in seamlessly. If Vick is the week 1 starter then either Geno was shit in training camp and preseason or Geno got hurt. If Geno has a good camp and preseason there is no way in hell Vick starts over Geno. Geno is younger and he has more potential upside. So under that circumstance Geno will start.
I hate picking QBs based on their "potential" - thats why this organization has had many poor QBs. Play the best guy. Vick is way better
Average at best. not solid like you expressed it to be. I won't say terrible but I would say that our vantage point as Jets fans on levels of QB play is skewed because we are used to bad QB play. In many cities, Geno Smith's december would be considered pretty terrible. I will give it average though. Definetely not "solid" however
This is a fair argument, and one I could understand being made vs. the people that are delusional and actually think Geno Smith is better than he is... I still disagree though, Vick has gotten better at being a student of the game the last couple years and last season was playing some very good football before his injury. Even if his skills have diminished, he's still considerably better than Geno smith is at the present moment.
That's how every QB in history was picked. It was/is based on potential. Some realize their potential others didn't/don't. Geno is 23 Vick is 33, if Geno performs well in TC and preseason and Vick also performs well in TC and preseason you believe the Jets should go with Vick?
You can say you disagree, but I know what an argument is, and I have made one. Meanwhile you have not posted a single item explaining why you should be optimistic about Smith. Vick ran much more when he was in Atlanta. By cutting back on running and staying in the pocket, his efficiency went up significantly during his time with Philly. I think that trend can continue with the Jets.
He looked pretty good against the Browns and Dolphins and was average against the Panthers and Raiders. Idk but I do believe fans are harsher on their own players than outsiders. However I'm grading him on a rookie curve. If an established/vet QB had those performances then it would be a different story. In Sanchez's first 2 seasons I wasn't as harsh on him as I was once he was in his 3rd and 4th seasons.
You are confused about the contents of your own post. In 219 after you said you don't like the quality of opponent argument, you went on to say the win over Oakland was legitimate, implicitly overcoming the perception that Oakland was not a quality opponent. As for Miami I have mentioned other factors than their loss and failing to score against Buffalo. But I am going to show you mercy and stop beating you silly about this one. We've gone over it enough.
I tend to agree with this argument, but there is one aspect to it that is a bit problematic, and that is what do the Jets do about the Qb position next off season? Imo, while you focus on Smith learning from Vick, it is also possible the CS will see enough of Smith in camp and practice to decide they would be best served by looking elsewhere, and they could do that even if Vick stays for 15. I don't think that's even close to a reason not to start Vick. But it would be controversial for the Jets to follow that scenario. I anticipate the argument that in doing that the Jets did not give Smith enough of a chance, and would in effect be turning their back on a second round pick and all that.
I don't care about their age, their price, the Jets investment, etc.. Whoever is the better player should start.. The same way Seattle handled Wilson/Flynn, 49ers handled Kaepernick/Smith, the Packers handled Favre/Rodgers, the 49ers handled Montana/Young (if you want to go back a ways) The way the Jets babied Sanchez was horrendous.. the way Buffalo is babying E.J Manuel is horrendous.. the way Washington is babying RGIII is horrendous.. etc.
I say worry about 15 when it comes. Vick is better so play him this year. That doesn't mean Geno Smith doesn't have a future, he could or could not be the answer in 15, but I don't think it's a good idea to factor in the future when picking a QB for the present. That's how you end up picking bad QBs in the present AND the future. Basically, what I am saying is that the good will rise to the top on their own . Organizations do themselves injustices by eliminating that factor by both valuing "potential" too high and worrying about image/competitions with QBs..
I think the real problem I have with people thinking that Geno sitting and learning behind Vick is that it will hurt him mentally. Like he will take some major physiological blow by sitting behind a veteran. If that was the case, why root for the guy at all? If you think a guy is such a pantywaist that he will need to go to therapy after being told he needs to sit and learn his position better before being placed as a starter in the most important position on the field, then guess what? He's not emotionally stable enough to play the position. Not the guy. I'm not saying Geno isn't the guy, but people need to stop pretending that he needs pampers already.
I haven't made any declarative statements. You have stated unequivocally that geno will not improve enough to be even an average qb and are using the argument that he was bad so he will be bad. my position is he looked to be on the upswing closing out the season and have,to date, not seen anything to think that trend won't continue. Will it? No idea, but I am not going to say it definitely won't because there is no evidence to support that
I actually don't worry about the mental aspect at all. I'm just thinking that if a 34 year old journeyman QB, who performs in the lower half of the QB ranks both in terms of stats and W-L, takes the job from him that we're probably looking for a QB again in 2015 and that puts us out to at least 2016 before we have a legit shot at a Super Bowl. I see scenarios where I'd much rather have Vick on the field this year however most of those scenarios lead down a rabbit hole for the next couple of seasons. The bar that Vick sets for Geno is that Vick is a competent NFL QB. He understands NFL offensive schemes and he has played in the WCO. He has his mechanics down pat. He doesn't fluster easily under pressure. The players he is on the field with have no doubt that he is an NFL QB. That's a very basic set of parameters that Geno did not have down last year in his first year in the WCO. So to hold the job Geno has to meet the bar set above. If he can't do that, well the guy who sets the bar is going to be on the field. I don't see many scenarios in which Geno gets beat out by Vick and then the Jets are spending much in the way of resources to develop him. It'll be on him at that point to make his case and he'll likely have another competition to do it in 2015. He won't be the guy the Jets are primarily looking at by then. This is the year if he wants to take the job.
Those that are picking Vick to start believe Geno will not improve come TC. I said it before, and I will say it again - it's not a true competition - they will give Geno Smith every opportunity to keep the job. I think an improved Geno will close the gap in terms of talent. Vick at 33, we saw already the best of what Vick had to offer.
I agree. I would also add that unless Smith shows substantial improvement, I would expect the Jets to make a move at Qb next off season.
