Yes, your avatar shows obviously bias towards a certain player. We know you don't want Stephen Hill gone. I have seen your other posts. So, less valid. Especially since the fact that you said Hill's glaring issue is staying healthy. Many players in the NFL do not reach their potential - they end up getting cut because they aren't productive. Hill had no catches for how many games? No one is asking for Stephen Hill to be a super-star or a pro-bowl receiver - we need him to make plays and he hasn't shown much outside of maybe 5 games in his career. I want reliable receivers and Stephen Hill isn't even close to one. That is through 3 years - I must say Geno had a hard time running an offense I agree, but he was one of the better deep throwers in the league as a rookie. He's got a stronger arm then Mark, I believe.
In all fairness to Hill he was hurt almost every game last year. That being said, the thing that bothers me about Hill is his awareness or lack of awareness. He often fails to locate the ball and just keeps running. There were a number of Ints last year caused by Hill which I would guess caused a lack of trust limiting him to just a deep ball WR. A good example is the INT on the first play of the Tenn game. Smith threw a perfect ball to the only place it could be caught. Hill had his defender boxed out but never located the ball and ran 5 yards past it allowing the defender to just step up and pick it off. Plays like this are extremely frustrating. My second problem with Hill is when he does locate the ball he has problems positioning his body. He times his jumps wrong, does not block out defenders, does not catch the ball at his highest point, and always just seems a bit off. He has the physical skills but seems to lack the natural athletic understanding of angles and how to move his body in traffic. In his defense last year he lacked the explosion and ability to jump for balls because of his knee. But what he and other Jets WRs lack is the ability to catch balls in traffic. We do not have one reliable WR that can win a physical one on one battle. Take a guy like Braylon Edwards in 2010. That man was the definition of trustworthy. If a bad ball was thrown he would get there and break it up. He would fight for balls. He saved a lot of bad throws from being picks in 2010. The kind of WR a QB can trust and who would win one on one battles allowing a QB to make risky throws. The Jets have no one like that and Hill is the poster boy for being untrustworthy. Hill was drafted as a project and has been injured most of his two years. It used to be expected that a WR would not develop until year 3. Even though he has been injured most his 2 years it is now year 3 and he has to make strides this year on locating the ball and fighting for balls in traffic. I don't think its a lack of effort. The man does a great job of blocking and from all accounts works his butt off in the offseason. It's the mental side.
Curious, What would you say his issues are then? 3 games towards the end of the season - He was hurt, and Geno Smith had 25 completions through those 3 games. To quote Santonio Holmes "He can't throw himself the ball" We can agree on this, But I think he has the potential to improve. Where I guess you do not, We can agree to disagree without insulting each other or saying I'm biased. ( I don't think putting his avatar changes the validity of any of my points. )
1. Can't catch / awful hands 2. Fundamentally flawed 3. Lacks concentration 4. No improvement from year 1 to year 2 5. As Mezzavo said, didn't seize the moment given to him. A lot of issues to overcome. I hope he gets it because he's a Jet but it doesn't look good.
Put him on the practice squad and sign someone who can contribute.. Give him a year to show us something and maybe he can be moved back up to the full 53... The guy is a waste of space.. Space that we desperately need.
Hmmm, can't tell if joking, or doesn't care to know rules of NFL. http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/8/31/4677982/nfl-practice-squad-salary-rules-eligibility
I am not talking about just one season. Besides how many targets did Stephen Hill get in relation to the other receivers?
Yeah this. I wouldn't give up on him yet, and only because he was so raw and we knew that when we got him (and traded up for him - Goddamnit Tanny!). But I hope we've learned something from this. The two or three pass catchers (2 WR and a TE hopefully) we draft this year need, above all, documented production. Enough of this raw-with-upside bullshit. Rex can fix RWU safeties (Antonio Allen) and front 7 (minus Gladis), but what was the last "project" on offense that ever turned into something useful on this team? In the last decade the best I can think of might be our RWU fullback Sheldon Richardson. We need guys that can catch the ball consistently. Like now. Preferably yesterday. Ideally give me Ebron, Matthews/Landry/Beckham/Cooks, and Richardson - some high ceiling, but a lot of high floor.
That stat is total targets / drops. I gave you Hills career stats. For comparison - Wes Welkers 2013 - 10 drops 73 receptions 111 targets ( 9.0% ) Stephen Hill Career - 6 drops 45 receptions 105 targets ( 5.6% ) I'm not saying Hill is even close to the WR that Welker is, obviously they're completely different receivers. But you can't say that drops is one of Hills issues at this point in his career.
Runs lazy routes.. Explain this please. Maybe give some examples? I've never seen this as an issue. Not using his large frame / arms to the fullest is definitely an issue, But i've never seen him labeled as a lazy route runner.
How about comparing his stats to someone that catches the ball deep like D.Jax from the Eagles? Those #s really don't prove anything. Welker gets targeted FAR more due to his ability to play in the slot and the value of a good slot receiver in a good NFL offense. Even so, 100 targets in 2 season - I can't imagine that being all too good especially a team that lacks play-makers. He not that good of a body catcher (since he doesn't use his hands to catch in a sense). case and point the NE game in 2012.
To me, most of his problems are straight from that shitbag Sanjay Lal. I have never seen Hill do these things: 1. stutter his steps at his LoS to avoid jamming. 2. use his body in deep fade routes [which should be his forte, given his height and size advantage.] 3. use his arm to fend off the jamming CB and get free behind with fade route etc. Looks like motivation is not the problem. Nor is his concentration. Maybe he is not polished - as in, not so adept at using some of the techniques. The QB must be playing some role but, let's not kid ourselves - Demaryus Thomas could produce with Tim fucking Tebow throwing at him. There is a serious issue at work here. I am inclined to think that, the bulk of the blame should go to Sanjay Lal first and foremost.
Sure: D-Jax = 3 drops82 receptions 126 targets 2.4% drop rate There's also something to be said about who's throwing the balls to these guys and how WR friendly the balls are being thrown. Geno obviously not as good as Brady / Manning / ( or even Cutler ). His percentage of targets caught is way lower then any of the other receivers we've talked about but we have to give at least some of that blame to our QBs who are both pretty notorious for not putting the ball exactly where it needs to be to help the WR. He definitely 100% needs to figure out how to use his frame / large arms to be more pro-active in the air and attacking the ball, But that's not what we're talking about. He doesn't have awful hands. He's actually in the top tier of drop rate for the last 2 years.
I agree with this as well. I am not a big fan of Sanjay Lal as our WR coach and I would like to see an upgrade at that coaching position. I do not believe he teaches his players good fundamentals and he has failed to mold Stephen Hill into an average receiver (IMO Hill's fundamentals are a big issue first and foremost). It appears he's still on the coaching staff which does not body well for our future prospects. I think he doesn't have good technique in any aspect of football. He's a great athlete, but I just don't see him as a football player right now. He needs to take advantage of his God given physical attributes and I don't see that right now. He may not be polished in any sense of the word but I just don't see him using his physical gifts enough. He has a strong blend of size and speed. I am not complaining about his attitude btw - I have no problem with that. So that is a good thing.
I 100% agree with you here and think both our QB coach and WR coach should be looking for a job. Sanjay never produced anything with the speedsters in Oakland im not sure why we brought him here to not develop our WRs too. To the point about Demarius ( And I think this is important because he's the closest player to what Hill was coming out of college ). Thomas - 54 Receptions - 734 yards - 6 TDS - 8 drops 108 Targets 7% Drop Rate 51.4% catch / target. Hill - 45 Receptions - 594 yards - 4 TDS - 6 drops 105 Targets 5.6% Drop Rate 43.07% catch / target. They're really not that far off. We probably all would have been calling for Thomas' roster spot after year 2 as well. * Thomas' 3rd year: 94 Catches 1,434 yds 10 TDs * slight QB improvement in his 3rd year could have affected this number For the record - http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2013/ - is where I'm getting these stats from.
Any chance you could put together a couple plays that this is demonstrated if it's so obvious? Maybe if you can explain one of the plays visually It would help me to understand where you're coming from. Your last sentence doesn't really make any sense to me. "This is the utter definition of Hill's effect on the offense"?
If you could find a play with an example of what your talking about it would be greatly appreciated.. Not trying to be argumentative here but just don't really understand what you're seeing.
Is it just me or did Stephen Hill completely drop off after he caught that ball against the Steelers and was cracked by Polamalu? I think he fears the physicality. See how he does in training camp otherwise its bye-bye. Nelson will fill his spot.
