That's only the story of his career in the Diarrhea colored glasses. I'm going to try and be as objective as possible here, So if you disagree or would like to add any more games feel free to respond. Losses: Here are the games IMHO that Sanchez without a doubt lost for the team. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ '09: Buffalo 10/18 - 5 INT 0 TD ( Worst game of career ) New England 11/22 - 4 INT 1 TD '10: New England 12/06 - 3 INT 0 TD '11: Baltimore 10/02 - 1 INT 0 TD 3 FUM '12: Arizona 12/02 - 3 INT 0 TD Tenesse 12/17 - 4 INT 1 TD 1 FUM Questionable Games ( these were games that he didn't lose for us, but certainly didn't win, I couldn't not include them but didn't want to say he lost them for us, we'll count them) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 09: Atlanta 12/20 - 3 INT 1 TD - Not a great game, But Def gave up the game at the end and we missed 3 field goals 10: Miami 12/12 - 1 INT 0 TD - Holmes dropped a wide open go ahead TD early in the game and we still almost came back to win at the end. So If you count the last 2, Thats 8 total games in 4 years that Mark "lost" for us. Wins: Now lets go back and get the games Sanchez gets us a W. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ '09: Indianpolis 1/17 - Playoffs - 4th quater come back lead the team to 2 scores in the last quarter including a TD throw to Keller '10: Denver 10/17 - Lead team back with 90s left to score for the win. Detroit 11/07 - Down 10 with 3 mins left, Scores twice to get to OT then finds Holmes for 60yards for the win Cleveland 11/14 - Won game twice in OT ( once missed FG from Folk, Second time TD pass to holmes ) Houston 11/21 - 40 Seconds left, Sanchez drives team down field ( Bomb to Braylon, Fade to Holmes ) Pittsburg 12/19 - TD @ end of the third and 2 fieldgoal drives in the 4th quarter to take the lead. Indianapolis - 1/08 - 6+ min TD drive at start of 4th QTR to take lead '11: San Diego 10/23 - Score final 17 points of game, First down diving play allows for running the time out. Buffallo 11/27 - Comeback with 2:40 left in the game, made a few perfect throws to Patrick Turner and Plaxico Burress. Finds Holmes for Game winning TD. Washington 12/04 - Perfect deep strike to Holmes w 5 mins left for TD to go up for rest of the game '12: Miami 9/23 - Sanchez to Kerley for go ahead TD with 3 mins left. 11 games that he was responsible for or helped us win in one way or another.
Here's the problem: You posted 4 games within the last 2 years that he helped us win. Considering the Jets won 14 games in that time span, wouldn't you say that's a poor ratio? And also it leaves out the fact it's a team game. Like 2010 playoffs vs Ind, yes he helped us win, but the D played at a much higher level than Sanchez and the passing offense. The amount the offense had to do to help us win was really low because of how the defense played. It's a very tough game playing "he helped us to do", "he didn't help us to do this" or "he made enough plays" because it still relies on the team around him
It is a bad ratio, But like you said it's a team game and there was a lot that came into play for the past 2 years. My point was that when he was comfortable ( '10 ) and had the talent around him ( Cotchery, Holmes, Edwards ) He showed that he's capable of leading a team to victory from behind or otherwise. There were big time throws he made to those guys and helped us win a lot of games. If nothing else I just wanted people to realize that he does have the ability and he's shown he's capable. It hasn't all been doom and gloom. You'll notice that in that time frame he also only lost 3 games for us. So technically, Mark is still +1 in '11 and '12 ;P To your other point I tried not to include any games that we won or came back without much help from Mark and the Indy game was one of the games i was on the fence for.
My issue was always that one big hit changed Sanchez mentality. I always think back to that Steelers game, in I believe week 2. He looked great week 1 and the opening drive of week 2 and then got smacked and wasn't the same. The offensive line let him down big time, and I thought he never really recovered.
on '09: the team got smoked in NE, mark was bad but so was the D and everyone else. we won the Arizona game. I would say games he was primarily responsible for losses: 2009: vs. Buf, at NO, 2010: 2011: at Bal, 2012: at Sea, at Ten, at Buf games he was a key in winning: 2009: vs. Ten 2010: vs. NE, at Den, at Det, at Cle, vs. hou, at Pit 2011: vs. SD, vs. Buf, at Was 2012: vs. Buf, at Mia
Man,... '10 was a fun year wasn't it? I was at the Houston game and wasn't able to talk from lack of voice for a least 2 or 3 days.
It was, we were so damn close. I can't believe what has happened since. That Hou game was incredible. I was so pissed when we blew the lead, I never leave games early but wanted to leave that one. Luckily I wasn't driving and I stayed.
I still love seeing the highlights. That pass to Braylon was one of the greatest I have ever seen in any game. unfortunately the team didn't come out ready against Pitt or we'd have a SB app at the very least.
2014 Cap Number: $13.1 million Cap Savings if Cut: $8.3 million Dead Money if Cut: $4.8 million There's all the "stats" or the "facts" about Sanchez one needs to know. Does anyone think his play is worth what he gets paid? Sure...it would be a wonderfully heartwarming tale of redemption if he actually remained a Jet, won the starting job back and led the team to he big game. Realistically, what's the odds of that? And are the Jets willing to give him that chance along with a top tier paycheck? Probably not.
He has shown the ability, the problem is that ability 2.5 or more seasons ago. Again, I've said this before, most people want to throw out the 2012 season because of lack of talent. Problem is, you can't wipe that out from Sanchez's head. It impacted his game and his head. Just because we as fans want to say it's not indicative of his play level doesn't mean it didn't impact him as a football player. And yes if you don't count the games from 2012 where the offense as led to 0,7,9, and 10 points he won more games than he lost! That's why it's a slippery slope. It's just a unquantifiable thing that changes from situation to situation. Most people don't blame Sanchez for the 2010 loss to the GB. Our offense scored 0 points, but it was such a good year for the Jets/Sanchez, nobody puts the blame that way, you didn't for example. But if Sanchez had that same game in 2012, the blame would be more highlighted because it came in a poor year. It's an ever shifting thing that really is just opinion. It definitely is a very quick way to sketch some positive and negatives from his career, but to break it down to wins and losses and such is just too inconclusive for me. Yeah I think people look back and overrate the offense in the IND win and eventual PITT loss. It happens because we wanted to remember it one way, but really it was different than we remember
One of the biggest disappointments in recent times. They blew their load the week before. That one's on Rex.
Rookie QB with I believe 16 collegiate starts? Oh yeah, I expected brutal. All I wanted was flashes that showed me the kid can play in the league and I think I got that. AARP member Mark Brunnel didn't classify as a viable veteran QB at the time? It's an interesting theory, but this is a different era in the NFL. If you are picked that high more than likely you will be starting. I lean more to the Steve Young's theory of "defensive-minded head coaches and their effect on offense". This is not something Young theorized just through observation he experienced it. The focus of the organization under Rex has been about defense not offense and QB development. From a developmental perspective it would have been better for years 2 and 3 to be reversed. However, from a team perspective we couldn't afford for Sanchez to sow his wild football oats in year 2 like he did in 3. We needed to limit him for the sake of the team. No argument here. To quote Steve Young again Sanchez "accelerat[ed] the down" rather than slow or reverse it. 2-3 games seems a bit high IMO. It also implies that Sanchez was solely responsible for us being a sub 500 team. I don't agree with that. We were a poorly constructed aging roster with a lack of offensive talent (at the player and coaching level) and a self inflicted distraction called Tebow. I still don't know how we won 6 games. Note not all of Sanchez's turnovers were because he was panicking and throwing it up for grabs. There were just as many blown blocking assignments, poorly schemed plays and guys not being in the right place. Like I said it was a collective cluster fuck. You won't catch me making the lack of talent excuse for 2012. He was just plain awful. His awfulness AND the lack of talent produced the ugly baby called the 2012 season. I fancy myself as a decent talent evaluator and I still see something there that can best be realized in MM's offense. I strongly believe, that if Sanchez was with a guy like MM since he came into the league, he would have had a very different career arc with the Jets. I don't get hung up on the INTs, there's been plenty of "successful" QBs that were proned to INTs. I kind of like the fact that he takes chances. Unfortunately for him in the past couple of years he has not had the horses to take chances with. A guy like Stafford would probably lead the league in INTs if he didn't have Megatron on the other side of those throws. A good OC can curb that and Mark has shown in the playoffs he can make better decisions when it comes to passing the ball. Just like a good OC can scheme a QB to have better CMP%. The fumbles, however, are inexcusable. Mark has huge hands so it's not a physical thing. Most of his fumbles are due to carelessness and trying to do too much. That needs to stop like yesterday if he hopes on salvaging his career anywhere.
That's on everyone, they shouldn't need Rex to refocus them or get them up for that one, they were playing for the SB. Hopefully that wasn't our last chance for a while.
I don't buy the bold. You think Eli is forever scarred by this past season? Sanchez already showed signs that 2012 was behind him in the preseason. His first couple of passes looked like were playing the 17th game of the 2012 season. He was able to recover and have a solid showing rather than have the free fall he did the prior year.
I'm too lazy to multi quote, so I'll just replay paragraph to paragraph Combine the first two, because he was so raw, I think the veteran QB could have helped. The 2009 Jets roster did not have Mark Brunnell, it had Kellen Clemens and Erik Ainge. I think overall for the Jets, again in hindsight, Sanchez would have been better off being slowly brought into the NFL than being thrown into the fire. The Jets were able to have success with him, but that success and his play in 2010 didn't carry over. Again, hindsight it's much easier to say, but hypothetically we had a Matt Hasselback type or something carry 2009 partially or fully, I think Sanchez could have used some time to just get used to the NFL and not be forced to adapt to and play successfully at the same time. Yep development wise, I agree. And totally agree, the Jets (funny statement coming up) were too good to try and bring a young QB along in 2009 and 2010. They were a win now team except for their QB. That's an extremely hard thing to balance. Ahh I was looking for that Steve Young quote. That's a great way to put it. 2-3 games is high. I was thinking TEN and ARZ, but I forgot we did win the ARZ game, we were just losing when Sanchez got pulled. We won 6 games because of Rex. We were also put in that type of spot partially because of Rex and mainly because of Tanny. Definitely some turnovers were not on him. I'm thinking the NE pick that always get gif'ed where he has the RB wide open with no defender in front of him, the TEN INT late in the game, the SEA RZ INT off the top of my head. There were definitely others like the MIA RZ INT where it was known that Cumberland ran the wrong route and etc. I'm not blaming all of 2012 on him, but you could tell the way he played the game was different. In fact, the numbers back up our eyeballs. In 2010 his sack % was 1.2% lower than his career average including 2010. His INT % in 2010 was 1.1% lower than his career average including 2010, his 2010 ANY/A was .6 higher than his career average including 2010. Oh I believe, as I stated above, if Sanchez was brought into the league different he would be better now than he currently is. It just so happened the Jets wanted and needed him to be the starting QB which I think overall created instability in the way he played the game which led to his eventual regression. There have been successful QBs with high INT rates, but Sanchez only did that once in his 4 years, 2011, and that was with Tom Moore leading us to one of the top RZ offenses in the NFL. (if you compare the 2009, 2010, and 2012 years to 2011, I credit Tom Moore since he was there that one year. I guess Plax should be mentioned too with his advantage in the RZ, but I would say Moore and Plax are the main reason it improved, not necessarily the talent or Schotty or Rex making a revelation). But recently, the top QBs in the league that do throw a high amount of INTs, still keep their INT % low. They both are important to me because combined with the fumbles, you just can't consistently rely on your QB if he turns the ball over that much. Could a WC system with MM help Sanchez limit those TO? I truly don't know at this point in Sanchez's career. Would limiting Sanchez's turnovers also take the risk of stopping him from making big plays, I think that has to be a concern.
I don't believe it happens to every QB, but I do believe I saw Sanchez playing the QB position different for the worse and not as well as I have seen him play. Like I said before, I don't buy that was just a lack of talent, I buy that the constant struggle impacted his game and he regressed. There is an argument the lack of talent caused him to regress which I think is a part of the problem but to me that's different than saying he played bad because of the lack of talent. His movement in the pocket looked poor in 2012. He tended to be late on throws on 2012 and part of 2011. He tended to forgot the game situation late in games. I think his footwork struggled and he struggled overall to put himself in the best position to make throws. I think overall that happened and it has to be fixed. So while we can say 2012 isn't indicative of Sanchez's talent, I do think it caused problems in his game that need to be fixed and corrected.
I totally agree with everything you wrote. He was broken and lost all confidence in 2012. I just don't believe it's permanent or lingering as evident by the way his preseason started. A pick 6 to a d-lineman. Then not too long after a near pick by a LB, I believe, on a another poorly executed screen pass. It couldn't have started any worse. The only thing that could have made it worse is if it happened at Metlife. The fact that he was able to bounce back from that and not fold, told me that 2012 was behind him at least up to that point. He's experienced some success; he's hasn't been completely David sCarr'ed
Oh he definitely hasn't been David Carr'ed. Good call bringing that up, I didn't mean he's permanently lost, I should have clarified that. I just think it's something that had/has to be fixed. The preseason is the preseason, for me personally I'm not putting much faith into that deciding that 2012 is behind him. If he ever starts for the Jets in 2014, we will really see if he put it behind him. I do see where you are coming from though, I just would need to see him in a few regular season games before saying it's behind him. Reasonable discussion in a Sanchez thread, it can be done :beer:
