This is true, but harassment tends to lead to extreme reactions that emotionally well balanced normally wouldn't make...
I'm not talking about just the conflict, I am talking about his behavior overall which instigated the conflict.
true, but considering he displayed some emotional and social issues prior to that, it can't be claimed that the harassment sparked the irrational behavior. my point was that his emotional issues did not begin with the incident. he had them to begin with, which was likely the reason he behaved in a manner that sparked the harassment.
Are you actually saying that Incognito's use of the N-word is blown out of proportion? There's no way you're that ignorant... The use of the term "half-n*****" in the context of an intimidating voicemail is unacceptable, xenophobic, racist, and does not carry any hint of endearment or positivity (as you may have implied).
Are you saying that Incognito instigated the conflict or that Martin's actions exacerbated it? Did you just argue that Martin's behavior towards teammates justified harassment? Or are you clarifying that Martin acted abnormally prior to Incognito's bullying? Regardless, what does one individual's isolationist behavior have to do with explaining what took place? For the record, nothing Martin did justifies anything Incognito did, said, or thought. (Not saying that you're arguing that).
From a lot of the things I have read in the wake of this "scandal" they were pretty good friends and the voicemail wasn't meant as malicious as the people who were not in the locker room are trying to make it seem. Friends say shit like this to each other because at the end of the day the other party is expected to know that they aren't being serious. At my job people make racist jokes/comments to the black people who work there(ex: "first time I've ever seen a black guy actually working, etc.) and vice versa and we just laugh it off because there is context and when the rubber meets the road we all have each others backs. If one of us had a mental breakdown an outsider that didn't know the situation might say somebody was "racist" but that couldn't be further from the truth. I can only imagine this is only more so the case in an NFL lockerroom where everybody is a tight knit family.
but your reduction of his behavior is far too simple. can someone be racist and xenophobic and still have friend of that race? it certainly wasn't a positive message, but it reflects the same type of racism that many people have, so it is hard to criticize him for it. it is no different than, say, not finding Mexican women attractive. that, by definition, would be racist on my part. but am I racist like a KKK member? of course not. Incognito, by all reports, has black teammates who like and support him, and he is friends with. he is not a racist in the way racism is generally used -- as disliking another race. his level of racism is more complex, and teeters on the type of racism most people have but just don't talk about and verbalize. racism is inherent in everybody, from its broadest definition, because we are able to identify physiological and cultural differences in one another, and are able to identify cultural behaviors within those races. the problem only occurs if we then believe we are superior to another race because their physiological or cultural differences make them inferior to us. so, although Incognito certainly wasn't being positive, was he really communicating that he was superior to Martin because he is white and Martin is black, or was it just a meaningless insult. the fact that it doesn't appear that Incognito took that position with all black teammates indicates his comment had less to do with his opinion of Martin's race, because if it did he would behave the same with all black teammates, and more to do with insulting Martin personally. but maybe I am wrong and am biased because I think most claims of racism are simply made because it inherently puts the defender in a disadvantage because everyone is so sensitive to racism and will side with the accusation, even if baseless, because they fear defending claims of racism will then make them appear racist.
I said "use of the term is..." not "he is..." I find that people who argue that racism is inherent in people are often just apologists trying to justify their own racist feelings (joking); psychological research has proven that racism is not inherent and that "human nature" (per se) is competition as an individual vs society to survive but that whenever humans self-segregate in any form they are most prone to develop what you consider to be "natural racism" or whatever. So, while you said that it comes down to the individual distinguishing between cultures, it's really just that as more people are born into diverse areas/backgrounds/societies that becomes much less commonplace. Regardless, other societal factors such as family obviously play a major role in influencing human behavior. There's a major reason why racism has rapidly declined since the 1960's as opposed to leading to massive permanent self-segregation as some predicted back then. Irrelevant. The question is why did Incognito bring race into it when it was inappropriate and unnecessary. That's why Incognito got (and deserved to be) fired. And did you really just say that a personal insult directed towards Martin about his race does not constitute racism? That's specifically demeaning and race-related, how does that not constitute racism?
Incognito obviously meant it in an offensive manner. Context is important. I heard about the "I put the A on it" because a few years ago, a black student said a teacher said it, and the teacher said he put the A on it. :rofl: pretty sure they banned him before it became viral (article on deadspin, etc.). The only chance you would've had to interact with him was if you were active on FH in the past few months, before this story went crazy.
You half-nigger piece of shit! I refer to your Black half because it's a joke! Haha, it's hilarious, we're biffles! In the context of anyone who is familiar with the symptoms of social anxiety knows for a fact that A) Martin suffers from it and B) that these individuals will often show embarrassment in what is often considered irrational by others (laughter, evasion, etc.) until they are no longer able to deal with the distress (hence his blow-up over what many consider to be "one lame joke". It was in reality the last straw that broke the big camel's back.) That's not analogous because that context is different than a threatening voicemail. If you've read the transcript of the voicemail and wish to argue that it wasn't harassment, intimidation, or threatening then you're either incorrect or unable to comprehend the English language. People who aren't racist say racist things. It doesn't make what they said any less offensive, hurtful, or unacceptable.
If what you say is true, then doesn't the party who laughs and pretends to be okay with the ribbing hold some responsibility for not telling somebody he isn't okay with it? I mean you can't sit there and take it for a year and a half and act like the rest of the guys in the locker room(including Martin pulling pranks on other teammates) and then finally have a meltdown and blame it on what goes on in every football locker room in the country.
No because if it's the case he is mentally ill. You don't expect a physically-weak person with cancer to just walk up out of a hospital and defend themselves against someone criticizing them, do you? No, you don't. Both are symptomatic of their conditions, except for some reason the former is much less well-known than the latter. If your argument were correct then therapy would be bogus. For the record, Martin didn't blame every football lockerroom, the media did, so stop blurring the issue. And yes, Martin can, because that's what happens in 99% of these cases. Because people aren't properly educated on the signs and symptoms of mental health, many disorders often go undiagnosed. Nobody is talking about how Incognito (the diagnosed maniac) is far more mentally ill than Martin because he took his anger and depression out on other people whereas Martin certainly internalized his struggle and for a while (and I bet still) blamed himself and experienced very low self-esteem, something we as football fans cannot fathom for a person lucky enough to play in the NFL to feel. We forget that they're people too.
Funny part is Tiki Barber coming out and saying nobody likes Martin, etc. Hey Tiki, NOBODY LIKED YOU IN THE GIANTS LOCKER ROOM WHEN YOU WERE THERE. Tiki has been supporting Incognito, which is funny, because I wonder what Incognito would've done to Tiki had they been teammates.
I agree with Vandy for once. The argument that it was a joke is weak as fuck. I've been around locker rooms and friendly, sometimes vulgar, trash talk my whole life, I've never heard someone say something like "half-nigger" or "I'm gonna shit in your mouth" or "I'll kill you".
Fuck Incognito and fuck the idea that because they are NFL players they should be manly enough to take this. Idgaf how big you are, who you are, or what you do. No one should experience verbal abuse like that. It is funny to a point. It gets out of hand when racial slurs are used and threats seem real. I said this from the beginning and I'll say it again. No one knows what is going through Martins head so none of us will understand how bad this hurt him. What amazes me the most is the fact that this bullying had to go so far that Martin up and walks making millions in the NFL. You people defending Incognito are ridiculous. A little bullying happens, but this shit had to have gotten out of hand for him to react this way. I fuckin hate bulleys and I have no respect for them. I hope incognito goes down the drain and is done for good. I feel bad for Martin. This might well end his career. I hope he gets the help he needs and doesn't have to go through something like this again. It's sickening. And FYI, I've met incognito. My current girlfriends cousin dated him for months. They broke up because he was verbally abusive and overally reactive to everything. This runs right in line with what she claimed. Fuck him
Crazy how this story has turned. After more and more stuff is coming out from other Fins players and ex Fins players, it just seems Martin is a lil bitch and needs to go away. [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iyeUcFKRv4[/YOUTUBE] This was probably the reason she was dating him in the first place lol.
It's called "circling the wagons," and is not even slightly surprising. No one currently (or recently) in the Dolphins locker room (or associated with the Dolphins in any way) gains anything from the original tenor of the discussion, so they are in full-on spin mode to change the character of it. I do find it remarkable that some continue to look at this as if it is an isolated incident. Incognito has a 10+ year history of behavior exactly like this. IMO he deserves absolutely no benefit of the doubt - he gave up the right to that a long time ago. Is there really any doubt in anyone's mind that he is a piece of crap? What possible reason is there to want him on your football team?
